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Last week, Lynn over at Real Live Lesbian wrote a post titled Lesbian Drama With Straight Woman. In a nutshell, it briefly discussed the overly flirty behavior of one of their (lesbian) friends - who is in a committed relationship - with a straight (but curious) female.
All relationships - lesbian, gay, straight, polyamorous - face the same struggles. Jealousy and infidelity are not exclusive to "traditional," heterosexual relationships. It is my opinion (and one that has been debated in the past), that all of those participating in flirting/infidelity are equally responsible for the outcome. It makes me cringe when I read the justification, "Well, they are going to cheat on their spouse/partner with someone anyway, so it might as well be me."
In RLL's post, the "straight girl" didn't initiate the flirting (which eventually resulted in some rather sensual kissing on the back of the neck), but she certainly didn't discourage it. The girlfriend of the flirter wasn't aware of the kissing, but was aware of the general flirting and was (understandably) concerned about it. My curiosity in all of this lies with the "straight girl" and her apparent lack of concern with the fact that this was taking place in front of flirter's girlfriend - a situation she was well aware of.
Something tells me that if "straight girl" was being neck licked by a heterosexual man, with his girlfriend (or wife) within viewing distance, she would have, at the very least, acted offended by his advances and insured that he stopuntil they could get out of viewing distance.
Assuming that to be true, why was this situation any different? Society is far more accepting of physical intimacy between women (assuming they are the young, pretty kind of "lesbians"), does that somehow make infidelity between women more socially acceptable? Do we (generally) presume that a lesbian/gay committed relationship isn't as "serious" as a heterosexual marriage, therefor the infidelity isn't as serious? What do you think?
Last week, Lynn over at Real Live Lesbian wrote a post titled Lesbian Drama With Straight Woman. In a nutshell, it briefly discussed the overly flirty behavior of one of their (lesbian) friends - who is in a committed relationship - with a straight (but curious) female.All relationships - lesbian, gay, straight, polyamorous - face the same struggles. Jealousy and infidelity are not exclusive to "traditional," heterosexual relationships. It is my opinion (and one that has been debated in the past), that all of those participating in flirting/infidelity are equally responsible for the outcome. It makes me cringe when I read the justification, "Well, they are going to cheat on their spouse/partner with someone anyway, so it might as well be me."
In RLL's post, the "straight girl" didn't initiate the flirting (which eventually resulted in some rather sensual kissing on the back of the neck), but she certainly didn't discourage it. The girlfriend of the flirter wasn't aware of the kissing, but was aware of the general flirting and was (understandably) concerned about it. My curiosity in all of this lies with the "straight girl" and her apparent lack of concern with the fact that this was taking place in front of flirter's girlfriend - a situation she was well aware of.
Something tells me that if "straight girl" was being neck licked by a heterosexual man, with his girlfriend (or wife) within viewing distance, she would have, at the very least, acted offended by his advances and insured that he stop
Assuming that to be true, why was this situation any different? Society is far more accepting of physical intimacy between women (assuming they are the young, pretty kind of "lesbians"), does that somehow make infidelity between women more socially acceptable? Do we (generally) presume that a lesbian/gay committed relationship isn't as "serious" as a heterosexual marriage, therefor the infidelity isn't as serious? What do you think?
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26 comments:
Great post. I'm really interested to see what the thoughts are on this one. ;)
Committed is committed whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. Shame on the flirter and the flirtee for not behaving better.
I really don't care what anyone does with anyone in the privacy of their home. I would never ask anyone about their sex life, whether they are straight or gay- it is none of my business- nor my concern.
According to the federal government and the governments of 45 states a gay and gay/lesbian relationship is not as "serious" as a heterosexual relationship. If it were same sex couples would be able to marry just like "traditional" couples do.
My guess is the curious girl felt safe misbehaving in front of the crowd because that placed a limit on the behavior. It kept things from getting too out of hand.
Yes, she would have done it with a man if his girlfriend would have been there. My guess is she would have overreacted if her "mate" would have behaved that way with another person, either as the kisser or the kissed.
As I said on RLL's post, I think that if Straight Girl is not interested in a lesbian tryst, there is nothing to be jealous about.
I can picture a situation where my boyfriend is snuggling up to lesbian and my first reaction is to laugh at him making a fool of himself. There is nothing be jealous about. Or I have certainly danced seductively with a gay man without my boyfriend being jealous.
I think there is only room for jealous when there is actually potential that something could happen. Otherwise it is harmless, flirty fun!
To answer your question, absolutely not. My friends who are gay tend to have a more committed relationship than the straight friends I have had.
I am not so sure this 'straight' woman would have back off if it has been a man.
Some people enjoy the 'danger' of flirting in front of another's mate.
Real Live Lesbian, me too!
Another Suburban Mom, I'm with you on this one - I don't filter relationship "seriousness" on the basis of a marriage certificate.
buffalodick, agreed!
Professor Fate, and I tend to think many people - maybe subconsciously - look at relationships through that view. Interesting to see that you see the possibility of a double standard from a different direction.
Karen, I have the advantage here of being privy to a bit of additional information - the "straight girl" is known to be quite bi-curious, so there is the potential for this interaction to go beyond harmless flirting.
Now see? In the situation you described, I'd be concerned that my boyfriend snuggling up to lesbian might be offensive to the lesbian partner. Interesting.
Bond, I tend to think like you do on this one - the absence of a marriage license, along with an "exclusive relationship", often seems more committed to me because the people together because they wnt to be - not due to some legal obligation.
All I know is that any woman of any age, straight or lesbian, is free to flirt with and dirty dance with me all they want. That's all that really matters to me.
I don't see infidelity as any more or less acceptable among either straights or gays. Meaning I'm not less surprised by gay friends who turn out to be cheaters than straight friends. (Did that make any sense? Basically, I don't think "well, he/she is gay so I should have known he/she would be a cheater.") I don't consider gays any more or less likely to cheat on their partners/significant other/spouse than straights.
It is absolutely equally wrong for "straight girl" to allow this behavior to persist as it is for flirter to flirt with her.
You hit the nail right on the head when you said that this "straight girl" would never have let this happen with a man, in front of his wife or girlfriend. which just showed even more disrespect towards the lesbian couple's relationship, adding insult to injury.
You asked , "Do we (generally) presume that a lesbian/gay committed relationship isn't as "serious" as a heterosexual marriage..." Of course we (generally) do. That's why Wifester and my marrage isn't even recognized in most states nor by our federal government. That's why we have marriage equality rallies, trying to fight for the right to over 1000 listed rights and benefits allotted to heterosexual couples but not to us.
Great post, great questions posed.
I'll need to see some photos before I can make a decision on this.
I certainly don't feel that way, and I think it's sad that anyone does. My bestest friend is a lesbian, and her "marriage" is just as real to me as my own.
The actions of both the girlfriend and the "straight" girl are disrespectful. I don't consider neck-licking to be harmless and innocent, especially since we know (I mean, DUR!) that the intent was not innocent.
Unless the couple has an arrangement (open relationship or something like that), then it does count as infidelity. I don't see the marriage factor really playing into it because even a dating couple can engage in infidelity.
Jay, you are such a giver!
Fortune Cookies, it's interesting to see the difference in response to these questions - although subtle - by those who I *know* to be heterosexual and those in same-sex relationships. Thank you for stopping by and sharing your opinions!
Dr Zibbs, Pffttt!
Biscuit, welcome back! Like you, I believe that neck-licking goes beyond harmless flirting, and the disrespect of both parties is clearly evident.
Evil Twin's Wife, I absolutely agree - infidelity does NOT require a marriage license, but I do wonder if there isn't some part of us (generally) that doesn't quite see it that way always.
I have known alot of people that make that assumption. My opinion, doesn't matter if you gay or straight, a relationship is a relationship and should be commited if you so choose to be in said relationship. There is no exceptions just because it is gay or lesbian
Behavior of any kind can be summed up with the word respect. It seems no one respects each other or relationships.
Double standards as they say, Darling!!!
Both women are in the wrong. "straight" for allowing the inappropriate behavior. She may not be as "straight" as folks think she is, she is secretly getting her kicks. "lesbian" is oh so wrong and her girlfriend should end that relationship. She is not respected by her girfriend. Cut and run girl before you have your heart broken.
Holy Cow...I think your questions beg far too many presuppositions to be answered. And I think you are push polling them to an answer that you want or expect. Cheers!!
Yes I think you are right, society does not accept homosexual relationships as valid as hetero ones. This is unfair. But- to play devil's advocate here-SOME gay people reinforce this themselves by acting promiscuously or whatever.
Both the women behaved badly and showed total disrespect for their partners.
I read RLL's post, and I think both of the girls were wrong. A relationship is a relationship, and you do NOT act that way if you are committed to someone else. It's wrong and inconsiderate.
It doesn't matter to me if someone is straight or gay. You just don't do that sort of thing.
Yeah... It shouldn't matter whether they were heterosexual, bisexual, polysexual, whateversexual!
BUT the fact of the matter is, it does to society. As you pointed out, it IS more socially acceptable for this to happen bwtn two women. It all comes down to what the parties involved level of 'okayness' is. And if even one says it's not, well, it's not then.
Dragon, we agree completely!
Queen-Size funny bone, not only does it appear the don't respect each other, but possibly they don't respect relationship boundaries either.
we're doomed, those double standards creep in to just about any nook or cranny, don't they?
Lu', I don't know that this is a cut-and-run scenario, but it's definitely one I'd need to keep an eye on!
Matt-Man, I agree! They do! But if you read RLL's original post, you'd see there weren't additional details.
And shame on you for questioning my integrity - I gave all of the information I had. There is a difference between intentionally misleading someone with intent and/or malice, and giving sketchy details because that is all you have. I wasn't looking for an answer I "wanted" or "expected" - I was merely curious as to what people thought.
James, I would say promiscuity has no sexual preference.
Bina, inconsiderate (on both sides) is a great description.
Vixen, I do think society (generally) looks at same-sex couples as less committed, but I also believe that same thought process is often directed at unmarried heterosexual couples as well.
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