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Last week I wrote a post on creative punishments - in short, praising parents who resort to public humiliation of their children in an attempt to get them in line. No, I don't think this is a form of punishment that should be used regularly, but I see no issue with it being used sparingly and as a consequence to the equally severe actions of kids.
There were a handful of nay-sayers to my post, and I'm not surprised. Being PTO president, I am exposed to a number of parents who would never dream of making their kids an example. Actually, they wouldn't have the time to make an example of their children because they spend all of their waking hours making excuses for them, "fighting" their battles for them and yes, even doing their homework for them.
It starts in elementary school, but becomes problematic in middle school - when kids should be learning how to make decisions rather than having them made for them. When learning that there is accountability for poor choices is critical.
Hello? You're hovering. You realize that, right? No ... you probably don't. The media, pediatricians, psychologists and even the college deans call it call it helicopter parenting. I call it raising a generation of kids who have never been given the critical life skills of decision making and problem solving.
Seriously people, you are obsessed with your children. You treat them like little princes and princesses - they are No. 1, MVPs, gifted - and a pain in my ass. You've diligently planned their lives from Baby Einstein videos and their first play date, to their first day of college. You shuttle them from soccer practice, to piano lessons, to karate, and, because they will attend only the best college and must have high SAT scores, to Language Stars Classes before they've mastered English.
You artificially inflate their egos. You give them graduation ceremonies from preschool. You give them a trophy at the end of the season even when they lose. You petition your school to stop correcting papers in red ink because it's makes your kid uncomfortable and hurts their feelings.
They "own" the latest and greatest gaming platforms, have laptops and televisions in their bedrooms and have never had to do a single chore. They have MySpace pages and unlimited texting packages on their cell phones - all before they hit double digit birthdays.
Your kids are not leaded crystal, but if you aren't careful, they may very well shatter. You are coddling and protecting your children to a degree that threatens their ability to, later in life, make good decisions on their own. They do not know how to advocate for themselves because they don't have to. Not only that, but they are learning that they can screw up - royally - and someone will bail them out. There are no consequences for their actions.
Sure, you are trying to create really great kids, but instead you are creating the perception of really great kid kids - they look good from the outside, but when left to fend for themselves, are complete failures.
A few words of wisdom? You aren't supposed to be your kids' best friend, you are supposed to be their parent. If you've never heard, "I hate you!" you are most definitely doing something wrong.
There were a handful of nay-sayers to my post, and I'm not surprised. Being PTO president, I am exposed to a number of parents who would never dream of making their kids an example. Actually, they wouldn't have the time to make an example of their children because they spend all of their waking hours making excuses for them, "fighting" their battles for them and yes, even doing their homework for them.
It starts in elementary school, but becomes problematic in middle school - when kids should be learning how to make decisions rather than having them made for them. When learning that there is accountability for poor choices is critical.
Hello? You're hovering. You realize that, right? No ... you probably don't. The media, pediatricians, psychologists and even the college deans call it call it helicopter parenting. I call it raising a generation of kids who have never been given the critical life skills of decision making and problem solving.
Seriously people, you are obsessed with your children. You treat them like little princes and princesses - they are No. 1, MVPs, gifted - and a pain in my ass. You've diligently planned their lives from Baby Einstein videos and their first play date, to their first day of college. You shuttle them from soccer practice, to piano lessons, to karate, and, because they will attend only the best college and must have high SAT scores, to Language Stars Classes before they've mastered English.
You artificially inflate their egos. You give them graduation ceremonies from preschool. You give them a trophy at the end of the season even when they lose. You petition your school to stop correcting papers in red ink because it's makes your kid uncomfortable and hurts their feelings.They "own" the latest and greatest gaming platforms, have laptops and televisions in their bedrooms and have never had to do a single chore. They have MySpace pages and unlimited texting packages on their cell phones - all before they hit double digit birthdays.
Your kids are not leaded crystal, but if you aren't careful, they may very well shatter. You are coddling and protecting your children to a degree that threatens their ability to, later in life, make good decisions on their own. They do not know how to advocate for themselves because they don't have to. Not only that, but they are learning that they can screw up - royally - and someone will bail them out. There are no consequences for their actions.
Sure, you are trying to create really great kids, but instead you are creating the perception of really great kid kids - they look good from the outside, but when left to fend for themselves, are complete failures.
A few words of wisdom? You aren't supposed to be your kids' best friend, you are supposed to be their parent. If you've never heard, "I hate you!" you are most definitely doing something wrong.
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41 comments:
Your last paragraph is so true.
I'm coming out of hiding to completely agree with you. I have three grandchildren that fit your description of "pain in my ass."
My daughter-in-law insisted I apologize for making my granddaughter stay in timeout until she apologized to her brother for being mean.
She even sent her father to see me. After we had a good laugh we planned how we will re-train the mother.
I don't know where things got off track but I think it might have been about the time the schools decided spanking was wrong.
Abuse is wrong - NOT punishment - come on peeple, get your head out into the sunshine.
Great Post Dana
Your posting should be sent to the Wall Sreet Journal for printing on the op-ed page. Our society is raising a generation of losers. The children are not being allowed to really win. So the false wins they have will trick them in the future. How sad!!!!!
Amen!!!!
ASM and I tell the kids that they don't live in a democracy, they live in a benevolent dictatorship. [OK, I confess, she gets credit for that line...]
I agree with what you say except for one thing...
I never told either my Mom or Dad that I hated them, and I've never heard it from my kid.
Other than his lacksadaisical attitude towards his school work, he's turning out just fine.
So, I don't think not hearing, "I Hate You" is an accurate indicator that parents are most definitely doing something wrong. Cheers!!
Amen! We call 'em little PITAs.
A pretty smart guy, whose children were older than mine, passed on a bit of wisdom to me that I will share today. "Don't raise your child to do as they're told, raise them to think for themselves- and understand the concequences of their own actions".
Pops G, I am not a perfect parent, and sometimes find myself hovering a bit too low, but when I hear parents demand that the [insert child's activity] accomodate them so that their feelings aren't hurt? Nahh ...
Doomed, many of these kids have no idea that they aren't as perfect as they are told they are. Just watch a few minutes of American Idol try-outs and that will become crystal clear.
Hubman, that ASM is one smart chick!
Amen!!!!
Parents forget that they are raising ADULTS not children!!!
I had a parent get in my face last year because I was not doing my job according to her...Her 14 year old baby boy (who incidently bragged about getting drunk and high...what he was doing with girls, etc)needs me to stand at his desk until he does his work...she knows he is lazy, but that is what I need to do.....first time I EVER lost my cool in a teacher/parent meeting. I kept my voice low but was totally frustrated and out of control otherwise....I think it was the finger in my face that set me off...I told her that I had 27 other mothers' children that need attention; there is no way that I can give her son that much attention....and my job is to get him ready for high school when teachers will laugh at that request. HE needs to be accountable!!!
I am afraid that my generation might be to blame for this vein of parenting....I hear from some of my professor friends that they are seeing it on college campuses as well....what are we doing to our kids???
Matt-Man, well ... let's hope he has at least thought it! I do not believe there is any way a parent can always be liked AND be doing their job. Respected? Yes! Liked? Not a chance.
RLL, and there are so many of them running around these days.
Buff, oh yes! Wise words indeed!
My kids have thought "I hate you." One of them even committed it to paper, but they have learned that saying words in anger have consequences.
Great post. Too many stupid parents.
Nooo...I'd prefer that he never even thought that he hated me. Not liking what I have said to him or laid down the law about, is fine, but "hate me?"
I'd prefer he didn't even think that. I'm funny that way. Cheers!!
Dana...Back in August 2007 on the Radio Happy Hour we had a guest - Charlie Sykes. a radio host in the midwest - who felt we were coddling our children (he called it "bubble-wrapping"). A caller got all up in his face and then mine and he and I had a back and forth on his site and it turned into a post on The Couch. I agree with everything you say here. I am not sure about the "I Hate You" (though I did hear it when Matt was younger...said in anger when he did not get something eh wanted...
Check out the post and comments HERE
The only parents I hate worse than the helicopter parents are the ones who are almost completely uninvolved in their kid's lives. In fact, it seems to me that for the most part parents are either/or. There don't seem to be too many in the middle anymore.
Its hard to walk the line of being just involved enough.
Hubman and I usually assert our authority and remind the kids that we are the parents.
The hard part is letting the kids do the work and succeed or fail on their own. DB has a science project and while I will let him do all his own work, I know some of the other parents will do everything for them. I just hope that my child's grade does not suffer because he did the work himself.
Good Morning Dana,
This is not exactly a new problem but it does seem to be getting worse.
I deal with a lot of entry level people and more often than not the more coddled the background, the more likely that person is going to be a problem child (unable to take constructive criticism, unable to get their mind off of their cell phone) The one's that do well and eventually start to excel are the ones who were taught responsibility for their own actions at a young age, not the ones that received an allowance without ever doing a chore for it.
My friend has three children and she always took the side of her child, believed their reason for the mistake, rule breaking and even law breaking. My Mom must have done it right because I know I thought I hate you even if I didn't say it to her. I don't think I said it to her she'd have hit me and righfully so.
AMEN!!!!
Your best post EVER!
I believe you should put this in your local Newspaper for parenting skills.
This should be taught to new parents with no pareneting skills. Then again this needs to be taught to parents who have many children, who believe that they are helping their children, when really they are damage goods.
I see so much of this in our court system. Children who believe that Mommy and Daddy will get them out of everything they do wrong, Why? Because that is all they have done to this kids their entire life.
They make the mess and the parents clean it up. Around and around, until they end up in prison and wonder why Mommy and Daddy didn't get them out, to grow up hateing their parents for not fixing it all and keeping them out of the court's and prison's.
One more thing. I believe in spanking a child. Spanking is the "bottom".
The courts believe if you hit a child anywhere else, then the Butts, thats abuse.
I agree to never hit a child in his mouth or face (even though I got hit quite a bit in the face and mouth by my mother, she was great at back handing you)but the face is their Identity and they identify with their face. So, "No" I don't believe in hitting a child in the face or mouth, but I do believe in busting their asses if need be.
I cannot tell you the number of adult clients I have who still have Mommy and Daddy hovering and trying to 'fix' things.
I don't think they have ever said they hated me....although I have been called "bitch" before. And I have heard "I hate when you....."
While making babies is an instinct...Parenting isn't easy...and not everyone is good at it.
You seem to do very well, Dana...and Cam will grow up to be a man you can be proud of...and probably a really good dad.
Great post, Dana. I completely agree. Trying to work with these people is a real treat. In the training process, I love hearing "I know" in response to something little Brittany or Jason can't possibly know. Furthermore, what's with the not showering and/or hair washing on a regular basis. My Lord...sullen, unkempt and bordering on smelly, bratty people wearing only black and/or gray who think they know everything there is to know. Tres fun. Clearly something in the raising of the children process is not working.
I dont think hate is part of the equation, I too have never told my parents I hated them and my son has not told me, I dont even think I 'thought' it and if I did I dont remember...reinforcing a negative can never be a good idea....while we can not choose our childrens paths I believe it is our responsibility to give them access to as many paths as possible and hope they make a good choice...I dont worry about other peoples children, while we have to share the world with them they are not my problem and if they want to hate - then I go ahead and let them hate...
Spot on!
Just last week I had two kids kissing and hugging during class in the halls. I told them to stop and get to class, they replied " in just a minute." I quickly informed them there is no options to my demand and the time frame is now! No quick extra peck, just do what I said to do.
The girl quickly turned and went to class but the boy... He stood there ,slowly grabbed his backpack and said," I've had such a bad and you have to be a fucking asshole."
No I didn't ignore his statement, he got that long talk he was looking for with his parents.
Breve, although I will tell a teacher that I expect them to do their job, I will also be the first to say that I expect Cam to do his job and I expect to do my job.
Fate, I think most (all?) kids have thought "I hate my parents," and that is OK. My goal is to raise productive adults, not children who like me.
Matt-Man, I think you are getting hung up on semantics, and quite frankly, most ... say ... 10 year olds don't have the ability to separate their hate of the punishment from the person it is coming from, but hopefully they get there.
Bond, and that's what I'm talking about - the comment said in anger over not getting one's way. If a child is always happy with the outcome of punishment, then there is no punishment.
Jay, I'd like to think I find that middle ground most days.
ASM, most definitely a difficult walk, and one that I misstep on occasion. I have no difficulty in watching Cam succeed, but watching him fail? Even when he has "earned" it? That is very difficult!
Karl, no - not a new problem, but I would say it has gotten worse over the last 20 years or so.
Lu, I've had to take Cam's side on occasion, but I do it with his as part of the process so that he learns to advocate for himself.
Cat, it is a sad state when children aren't given the skills early on to learn accountability, and instead end up being a burden on not just their parents, but on society as a whole.
Turn, there comes a time when there is nothing left to do but allow the accountability to happen, but I have sympathy for the child that never had a chance.
Kat, well, I in no way have it figured out every day, but I'd like to think I am at least headed in the right direction.
Kim-d, my own opinion is that someone convinced parents that their kids are supposed to like them, and that is a very dangerous path.
DB, I think that if your kids are always happy with the boundaries and consequences you set, there is a problem. I think there are too many parents out there hoping their kids make good decisions and not TEACHING them to make good decisions.
Al, oh my! I will say that I have heard some disturbing things come from the mouths of middle schoolers - including my own.
Ha! *AMEN*
Seriously. My ex husband was raised this way. He never fought his own battles and mommy and daddy (who were quite wealthy) would run in with their money to 'fix' anything that needed fixing in his life. He has NEVER taken responsibility for anything. It's really.....insane.
There was no way in hell my kids would be raised like that. They are held accountable, not held on pedestals, I am teaching them discipline and indpendence. Bc I love them and I don't want them to be whispered about as 'that' child, nor do I want to be one of 'those' moms.
I always introduce myself on the first meet and greet with my kids teachers with an outright introduction "Hi, I'm (realname) and I just want you to know, I am *not* one of those moms.
Humpf.
Great post Dana.
I couldn't agree more. I've never had to take such extreme actions but then I put that down to the fact that I've never molly-coddled my son.
He's not Mr Perfect, of course, but he's grown up knowing that you don't get something for nothing, that he has responsibilities as well as rights, duties as well as expectations ... and that he will be punished if he pushes things too far.
He's not been given everything he's wanted just because he wants it either.
I don't think I've ever had him say he hates me but I suspect that's because I am the absent father ... but his Mum has had that uplifting experience.
And, if I dare say it, Son is turning out just fine on the whole :)
Oh my God Dana. I LOVE this post! It may be one of my favorite. I try to tell Chris this about his daughter. I swear to God I have told him many times, "She isn't glass, she won't break if you tell her no". He still talks to her like she is a baby, and asks him for help before she even TRIES to do her homework. And one time, she threw the house phone in to the swimming pool and what did he do? He said, very sweetly, like talking to a baby, "Honey, you know you shouldn't do that right? Just make sure you don't do it again." I was freaking pissed and asked him he was going to make her pay for it, either with her own money or by working it off and he said, "I talked to her, that's enough". This is the shyest, babyfied 13 year old I have ever been around, and I am so worried that when she is in college, she won't be able to make.
I could go on and on, but instead I'll say, "BRAVO to you Dana!"
I just had to add one more thing, if ANYONE does say anything that's even a little bit negative, that girl crys. So when she gets her first job and gets yelled out, what's gonna happen?
Chris won't take her to get anything for her acne because he is afraid she will think that HE thinks she is ugly.
Gimme a freaking break.
I agree that my role is not to be a BFF to my kids but I do hope they will love and respect me and my husband.
I recently had a teacher recommend Emma get evaluated and it was very upsetting to me. I don't know why, it just was.
I love the way Vixen said she introduces herself. LOL
My big thing is respect. I demand it as does Billy and I expect them to show adults respect and courtesy.
I will not be doing their homework when they go to school. That is so absurd. I knew a lady who did her daughter's homework even when she went to college! *gasp* Don't think she was helping her really.
Nice post. Very well written. I couldn't say one way or another if DS has ever thought the phrase, "I hate you." I know I have never heard it.
*shrugs* I probably am screwing my kid up. What parent ever thinks, 'I am screwing this child up.'?
My problem is and I will admit it, I don't ever have a reason to tell him no. Will he grow up messed up because I never said it? Eh, maybe. DH tells me all the time I should just say no for the sake of saying no. My thought, why say no when not necessary. I just keep thinking there will be a day he will ask something and I will have to say it.
But for the most part he is a great kid. Great grades. Always says please and thank you. An adults dream. There hasn't ever been a person, teacher, or coach that has not complemented him or us on what a great kid he is.
So hopefully I am doing something right. But we ask ourselves all the time, how did we get such a great kid like him? Neither of us feel we are anything like him. LOL.
But as I ramble, I just have to add once again great post!!
I don't have kid, but I do know that my brother, sister and I were spoiled and coddled, by your definition. Fortunately, it didn't make any of us weak. We all knew that mom and dad worked hard to take care of us and we all strove to work hard in turn.
I think there is something to be said for knowing your parents will have your back no matter what you do wrong or how badly you screw up. Knowing my parents would understand and humiliate me made it easier to go to them with problems.
I gotta send this link to my sister! She almost got into a fight with an East Coast teacher at a teaching conference this fall when she mentioned having consequences for students who fail to meet expectations. The other teacher said the teacher should change to accomadate the student...my sister went ballastic!
Vixen, now, if they could just develop a 12-step program for helicopter parents!
Ro, although it's disturbing to hear those words from a child, on some level it means things are going "right"!
Bina, independence is a skill that is learned - just like algebra - and if we don't teach our kids the skill, who will?
FF, respect is critical, as is personal responsibility!
BBall Mom, I think sometimes there are reasons to say "no" that don't involve good grades and respect - for example a kid who is pulled in too many directions with too many activities.
Karen, I think there is a difference between having your parent's unconditional love, and having them bail out of every wrong decision.
Moose, I think the issues with teachers are somewhat directed by the demands of parents - kind of a chicken/egg situation!
Dana,
AMEN to all you've said here. As the parent to...more kids than you would believe, I have gone through my share of concerns with how the schools have responded to over-coddling parents. So far, my kids schools have been minimal in this regard, with a few teachers doing the "everyone gets a reward" thing, but for the most part they have done ok. I have made sure to point out the error in such policies to my kids as they come along so that they understand the difference between prizes and recognition of accomplishments. At home, my kids are in something like ASM's "benevolent dictatorship". The line I like to use with my older kids when they talk back is "The 1st amendment says that Congress shall make no law imfringing on freedom of speech, it doesn't say anything about Dad" I also think many of your commenters have taken the "I hate you" thing a bit too much to heart. While they probably don't actually hate you, they probably have thought it in anger and mine have certainly said it. But, as I've taught them to do, they always consider their actions and have always (so far) apologized.
REALLY great post Dana!
FMD
I know I'm late to the game but I'm behind on reading...
I wanted to say I agree with you on this totally. Helicopter parents drive me nuts and I can tell you firsthand that the superplanning doesn't stop after that first day of college. If I have to field one more call from a parent I might just snap.
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