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I don't talk about religion much here, but I thought I'd throw all caution to the wind today. Hey! At least it's not a political post! Not to worry, I won't do this too often.
A little background first. I am not a huge fan of organized religion. My experience is that organized religion has started more wars and stirred up more hate than any other single entity. The number of people killed in the name of God, Allah, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster is mind boggling.
I was quite active in a church in my youth. It started out with being forced to attend with my parents on Sundays (let's look like a good Christian family on Sundays, then go home, have Dad drink
It was in junior high school that things changed a bit. A good friend invited me to her church. They had a great youth program including an extensive music ministry. It was actually the opportunity for another performing venue that peaked my interest. Church was not only a place where I felt I belonged, but a place that was safe from the horrors at home. At a time when I felt no one loved me - no one cared - there were these people who claimed they did. Of course, they had no idea how deep my need for love was - I didn't dare tell them what was happening at home - the price of discovery was too high.
When my father finally left our home (I was 15), I left the church. I felt I didn't need "those" people any longer because my reason for attending - to escape from my father - had vanished. I spent the next almost 30 years with my back turned to organized religion and to any formal recognition of a God.
Sure, there were a few dabbles here and there. After Cam was born, I looked to find a church again, but it was a daunting task. I felt like an outsider - like I was being "measured up" for my ability to contribute to the church - as if somehow there was this foundation of the congregation whose expectations I had to meet before I was one of them. I found organized religion to be exclusionary and elitist rather than forgiving and accepting.
One of the things that has come up in counseling (which I am now attending alone until I am "fixed" - per husband's requirement) is the lack of a spiritual component within our family. No mention has ever been made as to what that should be, but there has been recognition that we really don't have one at all. Husband initiated a visit to a non-denominational, Christian Church (after it was suggested by the counselor) and we took the kids - exactly once.
But guess what? One of the kids (Cam) found something he liked in that church. It was time to step up to the plate to support Cam's interest in spite of my general distaste for organized religion. This was a decision Cam should be able to make independent of our (my) personal experiences. I'm sure it won't surprise those of you who have been reading me for a while that I was the one who would
insure this happened. Cam has since become involved in the middle school youth group and he and I have been attending church regularly on Sundays.Tuesday night, we'll be watching 8' tall vegetables prance around a stage. Cam has always had a bit of a fascination with Veggie Tales, thanks to an early indoctrination from a good friend of mine in Minnesota, and there will be a live show at the church this week. He's decided he isn't too old to attend and
Of course, my involvement in the church is only for the benefit of Cam. I couldn't possibly be getting anything out of this. Me? Wrong in my generalizations of organized religion? Me? Relinquishing control and considering the fact that there might be a force greater than myself in the world? Nah ....
Let's just say that this experience continues to make me reevaluate my
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32 comments:
I knew you would give the cucumber a special shout out.
I think it's wonderful that you are helping Cam to explore his interests and I think it's great he isn't afraid to indulge in some vegetable theater.
So I'm generally pretty quiet about my church affilliations on the blog b/c I don't think that is what people are here for, nor what I am here for. You DO know that I'm a Youth Minister, right?
However, I just had to say I am so proud of you for being open-minded enough to let God in (however small) to work in your life. Supporting Cam in his youth group interests is wonderful!
Churches can be some of the most judgemental places on the face of the earth, which makes the hypocrisy even worse. But, if you find the right church for you, you can find great support there. BELIEVE ME...all the people there are just as screwed up as you, some even more so.
Just keep yourself open to what God may be telling or showing you. If someone tells you you might be a good small group leader, that means they see a gift for listening and understanding youth in you. (I see it too) Give it a try. Or whatever opportunity may come your way.
I'm with you on the whole organized religion and the hypocracy of the church. My parents let me choose and when I did the church told me I couldn't participate b/c my parents weren't members. So frankly, my faith is between God and me.
However, since PC is a former Catholic gone atheist, I worry about how we will approach religion with our daughter. I want to be able to expose her to a variety of things and let it be her choice.
I'm glad you can support Cam in his search. Try to ignor the hypocrites and enjoy it.
(If all else fails, snicker silently in your head. Then cough "Bullshit". Then ask for a Ricola... or just snicker silently in your head.)
Knight, how could I possibly ignore the cucumber?? Thank goodness there isn't a corn-on-the-cob character!
Apple, it's been an interesting journey so far. As I said, I have far more questions than answers, but I find that supporting Cam's inquisitiveness is generating some of my own. We shall see.
TRLFTP, it's an interesting parenting dilemma. I've certainly helped Cam find (I hope) a fairly good moral compass, but I am a firm believer in religion (of any sort) being his choice. What has been surprising to me is having to look at my own assumptions along the way.
I did not grow up with religion at all, which was quite difficult in the south. It made me stick out like a sore thumb. I could write a book here, but I will say that as an adult, my interest has been spotty. At one time, we were quite regular in attendance at the church where my children went to preschool. Then, they started hitting me up to join "this" and participate in "that," and for a disorganized, insecure, bible-ignorant person such as myself, it was just too much. Church became something that depressed me. I would go home so sad. I gave it up about two and half years ago, and I've been so happy since. It just wasn't me. I tentatively wear the label "agnostic." I am getting used to not being ashamed of that.
I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church. Left it in 7th grade after leaving the Catholic School I attended for 4 years.
I was married in a Lutheran Church and Matt was baptized in the same.
We really did nothing to foster his going to Church at all, until we moved back to NJ when he was 10 and began attending the catholic Church there.
Unfortunately it was a Tithing Parish and we were looked down upon since we were not married in a Catholic Church. When Matt talked about being Confirmed (as all his friends were), the Church told us that we would have to remarry and he would have to be re-baptised before they would allow it.
Of course the financial aspect of these things were discussed and I walked away from the Church once again.
With my relationship to Nancy growing, I am once again looking to get involved in some way, since she is closer to the Church. A non-denominational Church would be my selection at this time.
You need to be "fixed"?????
I think not!
Ok, I'll say it...
I big, red, puffy heart The Veggie Tales. They're so funny. And entertaining...well for 'good veggies' anyway.
I think "Richard the Corn" is in a totally different movie! ;)
My girls have one Veggie Tales dvd thanks to good ol' MIL who, I'm quite sure, thinks it's awful that I don't take them to church.
I have thought about it but like you have been turned off of big organized religion for many reasons and at different times.
Good for you though taking your son if he is showing an interest in it.
Around here almost everyone is southern baptist and that denomination is IMHO the worst. It makes me want to run screaming for the hills. It might just be that I'm in Jerry Falwell country so they are a bit extreme in my experience.
Ha. That's cute. Yeah I said cute, okay? Hey whatever works and gives people a good feeling. Cheers!!
Biscuit, I would say that agnostic is the definition I would use when describing myself, however I've always felt there was a force greater than myself roaming around. I just didn't give it a name and a face. I've always wondered why there was shame attached to being a non-believer though, but there is - by many.
Bond, I have been pleasantly surprised with this non-denominational church. It's the first time I've ever attended one and it seems to be far more "practical" than any church I've ever stepped foot in. And actually, it is Cam and I that need to be "fixed," and that is EXACTLY what I am working towards!
RLL, *gigglesnort* "Richard the Corn" I think I filmed that and posted it on YouPorn!
I waver every now and then, but in general I find comfort in organized religion.
FF, I have always felt great resistance when pushed into anything - especially religion. I was very cautious with Cam. I wanted to encourage him without making him feel guilty if he didn't want to be a part of this. It's a fine line we walk as parents some times and often there are hidden rewards.
Matt-Man, I actually went to an interview with Phil Vischer - the creator of Veggie Tales - and was quite impressed with his (non-fairy tale) story.
wow. Your story sounds so familiar. I went every single Sunday with my neighbors. Even got a bible for going a full five years without missing a Sunday. By the time I got in high school, and my sister's dad finally moved out, I stopped going. I had a job and that kept me out of the house quite a bit.
But now I'm thinking I need to start my youngest. She has never been to church and I think she should at least have some of that experience in her life, ya know? And she would LOVE the Veggie Tales!
Leave it to our kids to challenge our view of the world, eh Dana?
As you know, I do not shy away from talking smack, er, I mean sharing my feelings about organized religion - including my latest about their position on birth control. Grr.
With that said, I would readily concede that generalizations (many of which I think we share) are just that and are not absolute. However just because they are not absolute, certainly doesn't invalidate the generalizations!
Therefore embrace the goodnees and kindness wherever you may find it. Just don't turn your back... :)
I can finally say that I have landed in a Church where all the bullshit I grew up with doesn't really exist. If it does, they sure do a good job of keeping it under wraps because I don't see it.
Dana, if I could just give you one piece of advice in not giving up hope and to go look for a church that will suite your liking...It was worth it for me.
Just my 2 cents.....
Karen, there is something to be said about the comfort of being surrounded by those whose core values you share, isn't there?
Bina, in some ways I wish I had introduced religion to Cam at an earlier age, but I wanted him to attend because he wanted to, and not because he was expected to.
Michael, damn kids! Who's have thunk it? Yes, we do have quite similar generalizations regarding organized religion. I have decided to approach this with a closely guarded open mind and and open heart.
I love VeggieTales. When I received my first Bible. The Preacher wrote an inscription on the inside cover. "Either this Bible will keep you from the Devil, or the Devil will keep you from this Bible". The Preacher was a very smart man.
Number one, I want to smack your husband for refusing to attend counseling until you're "fixed." You ain't broken, honey. You're human. If the resounding chorus of "me too"s is any indication, we're all a little broken in some ways. That's just part of being a human being. Why we worry so much about these things is absolutely beyond me.
Number two, me too! *gigglesnort* I make no secret of the fact that I am agnostic, at best. My beliefs about god are so abstract as to be completely incompatible with belief in a god that in any way resembles the God we've been raised with. To me, it doesn't matter what religion you are, or who you pray to. They all fulfill the same purpose, and we spend far too much time fighting over who we're praying to rather than simply praying.
I recently told my mother that my oldest is attending Mormon Church every Sunday with her dad. She was horrified that I was letting it happen until I said to her, "Mom, I really don't care which religion she grows up with. I just want her to grow up in a religion. She can sort the rest out later, like all the rest of us do." Amazingly, it shut her up.
Oh yeah, and I love the Veggie Tales. Those little animated vegetables rock my socks.
Flyinfox, it seems this one may have jumped out and found me - I really wasn't looking, but I wonder if maybe it was *grin*
Doomed, I have much to work through in this process, but I continue to be open minded.
Boo, funny, when I told the counselor that husband stated he wouldn't be returning until Cam and I were fixed, he said the very same thing! Prayer is something that has just recently found a place in my life again and that single change has been somewhat miraculous.
Religion can be a very beautiful experience, as long as you control it, and it doesn't control you.
Good for you! It is incredibly mature of you to be willing to do this for Cam's sake and even re-evaluate it for your own, regardless of your final decision on the matter.
And please tell me you aren't just going to counseling because your hubby told you to go get "fixed." That man doesn't deserve one more day with you.
Why is it that religion is fine with talking vegetables (surely a sign of the apocalypse) but has a problem with gay marriage? It boggles the mind.
I know how to fix you. It requires jettisoning your husband. I think he is your "problem."
"But what I do know is that I'm never going to look at a cucumber quite the same after being introduced to "Larry" live on stage!"
LOL! That was good.
I'm Glad Cam has found a place where he feels good and is accepted. I think that pro outways the many, many cons.
Richard, control ... such a strong word. I think balance in all things is critical!
Jenni, actually, we have been going to marriage counseling since February. He just recently (the past month?) decided that once I was fixed he's be willing to attend again. If he thought this was the way to save the marriage he was terribly wrong!
Garbonzo, I was wondering why they took issue with the Teletubbies - at least they didn't really talk!
[:-)
Whatever floats your boat...
Dana, I always wonder what we're going to match up on each and every time I read something of yours.
This is also nearly mirroring what I've dealt with!
Girl, you're the female version of me!
Come here, and let's hug!
The sense of 'community' is the strong draw of all organized religion.
I am a live and let live person. I wish others would respect that.
Corky, can you imagine? An 8' tall cucumber?? The ones I use ... ummmm ... HAVE in my refrigerator aren't even 8" tall!
Nick, you don't seem surprised *wink*
Buff, my boat is floating!
Jormengrund, I have faith that one of these days you are going to respond with WTF?? But until that day I'll give you a great big {{{{{HUG}}}}}}
Turnbaby, it seems that the foundation of any religion should be acceptance of others - not acceptance of others as long as they believe the same way that you do!
Sweetie...you need a change...no to be fixed...that is all I meant
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