31 July 2008

Critically Flawed

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

11/05/08: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE AMENDS. ALTHOUGH I STAND BY MY ASSERTIONS, IT'S CLEAR THAT THOSE MENTIONED IN THIS POST WERE OFFENDED. THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT AND SO I HAVE REMOVED ALL REFERENCE TO THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED.

A funny thing happens when you post about controversial topics, you get controversial comments. Now, in and of itself, that is a good thing. How can we possibly grow as people if we never consider a point of view that is different than our own. I actually like it when people disagree with my position and are able to convey their thoughts in a logical, unemotional argument. My post on the Chicago Public School's proposed "walk out" to protest per pupil spending discrepancies generated just those kinds of arguments, and a few others.

Before anyone questions my blogger integrity, I did ask XXX
and XXX for their permission to use their comments and post, and they both graciously allowed my indulgence, and amends a mutual respect has been assumed [EDIT: There I go, making assumptions again. Seems XXX and have come to a place of mutual respect. XXX flip-flopped on me]. This isn't a "Blast the nasty commenters" post, but rather a post that explores how our own biases and perceptions can sometimes cloud the real point of a post, and how perception of those we don't know, but think we do, can be critically flawed.

I'll admit, I was a bit taken aback by XXX responses to my post, more specifically, parts of her second response.

If I understand correctly, you went to school to be a paralegal. I wouldn't exactly call that "college educated". I'd call that a vocation.
This was, in my opinion, an emotional response and not meant to validate her argument, but rather to belittle mine. In her defense, she claims that was not the case - it was an honest mistake, but it is this type of response that loses me in a debate. It isn't factual, yet was presented as fact. Even if it were, it in no way relates to parents becoming involved in their kids' education - the main point of my post.

Perhaps you didn't intend to come off they way you did at least to my eyes, but I think it's a bit wrong to think your child deserves better simply b/c you live in a rich neighborhood and the factory worker's kid doesn't deserve that same opportunity.
I do feel that if I work hard, my family should benefit from that hard work. I didn't just arbitrarily find myself in a "rich neighborhood," I worked hard to get here. It wasn't dumb luck, a lottery win or a trust fund, but rather embracing and realizing opportunity. It was setting priorities and goals and striving towards accomplishing those even when there were significant setbacks.

What I now know about XXX is that she grew up in a "low income" home in a poor area with a struggling and depressed single mother. I would assume that she has a bias that clouded her ability to see the main point of my post. She felt I was putting her down and she fought back.

Then there was XXX. He actually published a post and then deleted it from his blog. Although technically it is no longer on his blog, it was, and is, available in its entirety on any RSS feed reader. [EDIT: XXX has since re-posted his response on his blog, along with unmarked edits and all (?) of the original comments] He wrote, in part:

Its interesting that people who 'work' for a living are the biggest complainers...try 'creating' see how hard that is. We NEED all of you people -people like, like Dana that feel superior and do some kind of 'work' that is 'superior' to the people that keep the airport clean more superior than the the rest of you "people" you are all perfectly good little office 'grunts' basic 'lowlifes' because you are below the college education of say- Dana ...me I just make art and it does all right by me...... and I appreciate every single person I ever come across - slow like the slow child or quick witted like the neighbor. I think education comes from________fill in the blank.
XXX's writing can be a bit abstract at times, however this was pretty clear. His perception is that I feel superior than "
the people that keep the airport clean (snip) perfectly good little office 'grunts' basic 'lowlifes'" and, I can reasonably extrapolate that he perceives me as someone without appreciation for the people I come in contact with daily. OUCH!

XXX did say in a follow-up email, "I had this opinion last night but then had a change of heart this morning....I felt bad singling you out as you probably voice an opinion had by many and I didn't want to seem like I was picking on you because I am not."

[EDIT: Apparently he's had a change of heart on this as well and attempts to "blame" it one me for "bringing him back into this" when he had the opportunity to decline my request. Hmmmmm - agenda?]

All that I can reasonably assume is that XXX has a disdain for people he perceives as feeling superior - not just superior towards him, but superior towards anyone. Like Fairy Flutters, he felt a personal attack at some level and he fought back.

I'd tell you I was shocked by their perceptions, but I've heard them before. It makes me sad - sad that I am not able to communicate my position in a way that is logical, yet empathetic. I've never quite been able to put it into words, but Matt-Man (with a little help from Schmoop) was able to. He wrote:

Schmoop has pointed out to me that when I argue or debate with others, I am always cool, calm, collected, and matter of fact. She knows that I have very little little feeling of any kind of grandeur, but to others it can come off as smug.

I can see how this type of thing can apply to you. You know why? Because like me, when you do debate you stick to your facts without interjecting visceral statements. (although I do DO interject sarcasm, if I know it's gonna piss the other person off, Hee Hee)
Smug. There it is. I debate in a matter-of-fact tone, I stick to the topic of debate, I detach myself emotionally, and it is sometimes perceived as smug. My own bias towards protecting my emotional vulnerability is likely the culprit. I know that identified weaknesses are easy targets for those looking to take aim. I've learned to minimize those targets - at all costs.

There is a price for emotional protection - it's called smug. Smug isn't me - just a perception of me - a perception that really is critically flawed.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

25 comments:

boo said...

I don't think you're smug. I think you're intelligent and assertive, which is intimidating. I love you m'dear, but you scare the hell outta me!



And I like it. *wink*

Lu' said...

I read your "soap box" post as I call them with a tone of, Dana matter of fact. They are your opinions that's all. Everyone has an opinion. I enjoy reading yours because they are so well written.
Anyone who's followed your blog should know that you don't think yourself better than others because of their stature in life. Look where you've come from. Feeling you deserve better because of what you have achieved is not wrong. If it were why would we strive to be better our positions, earn more, do more?

buffalodick said...

Well, you know the name of my blog...

Dana said...

Boo, ha! You're not the first one to tell me I''m intimidating and scary either, but usually people don't find that endearing.

Lu, I think most of my reader's "get" me - especially as I've shared a bit more of my personal history. Yet in that eternal quest to better myself, I'd like for them all to "get" me ... or would that mean I lose readers? *giggle*

Buff, and no better name was had!

captain corky said...

I appreciate the fact that you are willing to put yourself out there on so many different levels. I always enjoy reading your arguments and think you do a good job of defending your position.

Schmoop said...

That Matt-Man is one perceptive Mo-Fo. Perceptions can be so very off as to the reality of whom a person really is. Cheers Hot Stuff!!

Dana said...

Corky, I don't expect everyone to agree with me and really do enjoy hearing differing opinions. Thanks for the stroke ... can you move a little lower next time?

Matt-Man, I only take issue with perceptions when one is so entrenched in them they fail to consider they might be wrong.

Real Live Lesbian said...

Gosh...and all this time I thought you were NICE!

Unknown said...

I don't want to get into a big debate any over any of this, because every person has a right to their own opinion. However, have the people who commented, thinking you are "smug", "superior", forgotten your history, which you posted about not so long ago? Someone with a past such as yours (and mine) know what it's like to work your ass to get where you are, and I have a hard time believing that neither you, nor I, could EVER think we are superior to any other person.

But that's just me.

Karen said...

I am not sure if smug is the right word. I would call you strong. People who debate from an emotional stand point do not understand someone who strong in their opinions.

Trée said...

Dana, perceptions and reality are like two sisters that don't get along and I've struggled to bring peace when one or the other digs their heels in. A few months ago, I mentioned to family and friends that I was supporting Obama. I had no idea, none, how much my simple declaration, I wasn't pitching them, stirred some of the most ill founded perceptions I never knew were sitting like muck on the bottom of their belief jars. Wow. It was like opening a door to a firestorm. I'll spare you the details, but it remains clear to me--people cherish their beliefs and perceptions like buried treasure, facts and reality be damned. :-D

Knight said...

I think you know that I don't completely agree with a lot of your opinions but that is just because I see things differently from you and we have different lives. I have never felt like you were personally attacking me and I enjoy that I am able to state my opinion here without worrying how you will take it. I love when you post about controversial topics because you are so well informed and I always get something out of it.

Now about the debate that starts in the comments. Obviously people have different ways of trying to get their point across. I can see where FairyFlutters might have become upset and it wasn't the original post. I think the trigger was "Unlike you, I don't expect life to be fair." which to me, does sound like a personal attack. I should not speak for her though. I am just stating how it came across to me. I know it was not your intention for her to take that personally. It is your style of debate and not all people are used to it. Hell, I wouldn't be if it weren't for my best friend being just like you. Now I understand where you are coming from. Once again, just a different way of seeing things.

Jay said...

Why you arrogant, smug, pompous, .. uh .. what were talking about? ;-)

Oh yeah, well people sometimes get a bit defensive about things. Especially when it comes to discussions about "success" or income or "working hard" and stuff like that. They tend to take anything as a personal slight as in "Well, you just don't work hard." or "I work much harder than YOU do." When you aren't pointing the finger at that person at all, but they may take it that way anyway.

It's hard to "know" somebody, no matter how long you've read his/her blog. So people assume the worst. At least that's been my experience with many of the emails I've gotten from people who clearly don't know me at all.

Dana said...

RLL, you should know me better than that by now!!

Bina, that is part of what baffles me as well. Because of my past, I know it's possible to be in a really bad place and make the choice to change it. I don't look down on people, but I do believe they have the ability to change their circumstances.

Karen, and don't get me wrong, I am often emotionally attached to my opinions, I just try not to interject the emotion in my argument.

Dana said...

Trée, people cherish their beliefs and perceptions like buried treasure, facts and reality be damned unfortunately, I think that is sometimes true.

Knight, getting something out of it works both ways. One of the primary reasons I post controversial topics is because I'm wondering about my own perspective on them. When y'all leave comments you help me to see sides of the argument I may not have considered.

Point taken on the "Unlike you, I don't expect life to be fair" comment. This was one of those times when my own bias was interjected into the comment as FF and I have an email list "relationship" as well as a blogging relationship and my perception of her is sometimes clouded by that.

Dana said...

Jay, I <3 you! I still can't believe you get *hate* mail - your posts are seldom controversial and even when they are, are well thought out and well written.

Ken said...

When you post your political [for a better word] subject posts, I do feel a tad inferior because I can't get what is in my mind completly out, to my two Trade High School fingers. I think, and try to analize my opinions about these kinds of subjects but I can't get all my ducks in a row. But that's OK. That's just me, I have no problem with any of that.
I try to have a good attitude!

ambergail77 said...

I admire the way you present your opinions. You research for information to support your beliefs and you discuss them in a matter of fact way. Smug may be what it is, but it is your way of expression. It seems to be working, look how much you have accomplished in your life.

I am a big fence sitter on so many subjects because I am so good at playing devil's advocate. I can see two sides and usually three to everything. At times that is great. Usually it just makes me seem indecisive and wishy washy.

I can say that you make convincing points though and I am definitely going to try that Thin Mint Blizzard this weekend.

cat said...

Well, I have been away a few days and look what I have missed. I have to say I love the way you put your mind out on paper or the internet (in this case).

Opinions can be so cunning at times, that is why I never talk about politics or religion or children, because people feel that "their way, is the right way" and I'm sorry but that is not always the case.

We have the right to express ourselfs and if people come here and find they don't like the topic, then their "opinion" can be to move along, but in no way should this be a place to come and be rude to the host.......we should all remember what our mothers taught us, "if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all".

Not that I don't think we can have heated debates here, it's just how you so elegantly put " keep the emotions out of it" best advice I have heard all day.

I'm a fan of yours and you know this, each person on my blog roll is different from me, that is what draws me to them. I, like yourself, enjoy the diverse company and believe that is how we learn, to hear the difference and different opinions from others then ourself.......we can't ALWAYS be right, sometimes we need to hear what others have to say, to see the whole picture of life.

Oh, and one more thing.....Be nice to the host or you may not be asked back again......and we won't want that, now would we? *wink*

Anonymous said...

Just imagine if I had weighed in with my opinions about people who have no college degree and yet insist on homeschooling their kids. (Former public schoolteacher here who is re-entering the profession) Oh, my! I can see the fireworks now!

Dana said...

Micky, when I post political/current event posts the last thing I want is for anyone to feel inferior. Know that I do value any and all opinions - especially those given through different life experiences!

Ambergail77, score one for the Thin Mint Blizzard! I can be convincing, can't I?

Cat, while you were away the mice were at play *gigglesnort* Enough of the corny stuff - I get excited about passionate opinions, specifically when they are substantiated through fact and observation. Maybe it's my geeky-ness showing through, but I really do appreciate people who make me think about my own perceptions and biases.

Dana said...

A, you'd have been in deep doo-doo, that's for sure! I have considered homeschooling my son, but have struggled with my ability to do so - both on an intellectual level and temperament level. As frustrated as I've been with the public school system - as unhappy as I have been at times with their policies/proceedures and red tape - I've just always questioned my own ability to do better.

none said...

Sometimes people get bent out of shape when they read things that hit too close to home.

you just have to keep being honest and roll with the punches when necessary.

Anonymous said...

yeah, ok, I'll stroke.

How can i not, with such a soundly argued and logical post?

I agree that often people don't like the message, because it disagrees with their perception of the world, but being unable to quite see what is wrong with the message, and still feeling unhappy about what is being said, they attack the messenger, sometimes in an angry or nasty way.

This is always irrelevant.

It doesn't matter how stupid you prove the messenger to be, if the basis of what the messenger is saying is logical, factual, truthful and well reasoned, then any faults of the messenger are not relevant.

Even when what is being said is stupid, illogical or insane, then again, the point is not to attack the person who says these things, but to simply point out where their arguments may fall down.

I suppose one thing to remember, for me anyway, is that if I choose to pick very sensitive topics (like breeding, for example - whoops, I mean reproduction, or 'having children'), and criticise them in some way, or point out facets of the behaviour of some people who are involved in the said topic, then I open myself up to the possibility of aggression and anger, because people can take some things as personal.

This is worse when you criticise so called 'normal' behaviour, like having babies, falling in love, getting married, driving a car, having a job, or imposing extreme military solutions upon selected rogue states while ignoring other much worse rogue states.

Or, perhaps I am just wrong.

rage said...

Wow, interesting debate.