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You all know how I feel about zero tolerance policies - especially when it comes to their implementation in schools. Let's be honest here, defining something as a weapon can be a bit subjective. For example, last year Cam was sent to the office for wearing a metal chain belt fastened with a lock (*shakes head* I never said he was a fashion diva). When I saw him with it on that morning, I told him he would likely be told he couldn't wear it - that it would be considered a weapon - but he decided to wear it anyway.
When the school called to tell me they confiscated the belt as a weapon, and that I could pick it up from the office, I told them to put it in the trash. I warned Cam (even though I thought calling it a weapon was a stretch). He decided to take his chances. He was wrong. Learn to live with the decisions you make in life.
Fortunately, his school didn't bow down to the zero tolerance Gods. They thought this could be interpreted/used at a weapon, but they didn't implement the mandatory suspension guidelines.
A similar thing happened to Delaware first grader Zachary Christi. Apparently Zachary's family camps regularly. His parents bought him a handy-dandy folding fork, knife, spoon utensil. Zachary decided the pocket spork shouldn't be just for camping and took to school so that he could use it to eat his lunch.
In another time - a time when people still used their brains to think - Zachary probably would have been asked to hand over the tool and the principal would have called his mother to the office for a little discussion. End of story.
Unfortunately, we live in a time when kids take guns to school and shoot each other, and as is usually the case, over-zealous, zero-tolerance policies are put in place in school districts across the country. Delaware’s zero-tolerance policy toward "weapons" required Zachary to be punished - 45 days in an alternative school for troublemakers.
As a side note, the best way to teach kids to be troublemakers is to put them in a classroom/school full of troublemakers, but I digress ...
It would be nice if school administrators were left with a little more discretion in these matters, but that would require them to think - to apply discretion without prejudice - to be held accountable for their decisions. We don't do that well in public schools. Hell, we don't do that well anywhere. We like it when we can do something, then say, "It's not my fault!"
Zero-tolerance policies can usually be more accurately named zero-common sense policies. They leave very little wiggle room when it comes to doling out reasonable discipline. But there is another side to this ...
If Zachary or another student had been hurt by the knife, intentionally or unintentionally, who do you suppose would be held accountable? I'm pretty sure the school district has the deepest pockets. Again, the zero-tolerance policy comes into play. Policy usually makes for a great defense in court.
So what's the answer? Zero-tolerance policies are idiotic. Asking teachers and administrators to always make the correct discipline decisions is ridiculous. Sounds like our hands are tied, right?
I have one word for you - PARENTING! How the hell did little Zachary manage to get that utensil to school? Did his parents give him permission? I heard them on an interview say, "There's nothing wrong with it. We let him use it to eat at home." Hello? Are you stupid? There is a significant difference between home and school and as parents, we have an obligation to insure that line isn't crossed. As parents, we must pay attention and use common sense (there's that phrase again).
The crime in this case wasn’t Zachary’s. Certainly the bone-headed, bureaucratic system of laws, regulations and buck-passing played a part, but not as much as some would like to believe. The real criminals in all of this? Zachary's Parents. They had the ability, and the responsibility, to be aware of what their 6-year old was bringing to school. In this case, there should be a 45-day alternative program for "troublemaker" parents.
You all know how I feel about zero tolerance policies - especially when it comes to their implementation in schools. Let's be honest here, defining something as a weapon can be a bit subjective. For example, last year Cam was sent to the office for wearing a metal chain belt fastened with a lock (*shakes head* I never said he was a fashion diva). When I saw him with it on that morning, I told him he would likely be told he couldn't wear it - that it would be considered a weapon - but he decided to wear it anyway.When the school called to tell me they confiscated the belt as a weapon, and that I could pick it up from the office, I told them to put it in the trash. I warned Cam (even though I thought calling it a weapon was a stretch). He decided to take his chances. He was wrong. Learn to live with the decisions you make in life.
Fortunately, his school didn't bow down to the zero tolerance Gods. They thought this could be interpreted/used at a weapon, but they didn't implement the mandatory suspension guidelines.
A similar thing happened to Delaware first grader Zachary Christi. Apparently Zachary's family camps regularly. His parents bought him a handy-dandy folding fork, knife, spoon utensil. Zachary decided the pocket spork shouldn't be just for camping and took to school so that he could use it to eat his lunch.
In another time - a time when people still used their brains to think - Zachary probably would have been asked to hand over the tool and the principal would have called his mother to the office for a little discussion. End of story.
Unfortunately, we live in a time when kids take guns to school and shoot each other, and as is usually the case, over-zealous, zero-tolerance policies are put in place in school districts across the country. Delaware’s zero-tolerance policy toward "weapons" required Zachary to be punished - 45 days in an alternative school for troublemakers.
As a side note, the best way to teach kids to be troublemakers is to put them in a classroom/school full of troublemakers, but I digress ...
It would be nice if school administrators were left with a little more discretion in these matters, but that would require them to think - to apply discretion without prejudice - to be held accountable for their decisions. We don't do that well in public schools. Hell, we don't do that well anywhere. We like it when we can do something, then say, "It's not my fault!"
Zero-tolerance policies can usually be more accurately named zero-common sense policies. They leave very little wiggle room when it comes to doling out reasonable discipline. But there is another side to this ...
If Zachary or another student had been hurt by the knife, intentionally or unintentionally, who do you suppose would be held accountable? I'm pretty sure the school district has the deepest pockets. Again, the zero-tolerance policy comes into play. Policy usually makes for a great defense in court.
So what's the answer? Zero-tolerance policies are idiotic. Asking teachers and administrators to always make the correct discipline decisions is ridiculous. Sounds like our hands are tied, right?
I have one word for you - PARENTING! How the hell did little Zachary manage to get that utensil to school? Did his parents give him permission? I heard them on an interview say, "There's nothing wrong with it. We let him use it to eat at home." Hello? Are you stupid? There is a significant difference between home and school and as parents, we have an obligation to insure that line isn't crossed. As parents, we must pay attention and use common sense (there's that phrase again).
The crime in this case wasn’t Zachary’s. Certainly the bone-headed, bureaucratic system of laws, regulations and buck-passing played a part, but not as much as some would like to believe. The real criminals in all of this? Zachary's Parents. They had the ability, and the responsibility, to be aware of what their 6-year old was bringing to school. In this case, there should be a 45-day alternative program for "troublemaker" parents.
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29 comments:
So by your own reasoning, you're also a troublemaker parent for allowing Cam to wear that belt/"weapon" to school, right?
I said much of the same thing to myself when I heard this story. Zero Tolerance Policies are stupid and more importantly part of the dumbing down of America.
School Administrators, teachers, and others involved don't have to think if they have a ZTP. How ironic that people like that don't have to think. Cheers!!
The problem with "Zero Tolerance" is that in this day and age there's more gray than absolutes.
Thus, when you've got to toe the line and adhere to a rule or face severe consequences, most folks think "It's not that bad, I won't have to worry about it too much."
Zero Tolerance is just that: NO tolerance for breaking the rules. No wiggle room, no happy medium.
As my dad calls it: Zero Tolerance is basically (for bible readers) Old Testament law. Thou shalt do what you're told, or DIE.
Plain and simple, really. Nothing gets through all of the semi-idiotic decision making folks do like a good hard smack alongside the cranium when they bend the rules, does it?
Sorry, Dana. I have to agree with school policy on this one. It's got to be an all-or-nothing endeavor here. You can't leave this open to interpretation, because one person's interpretation of an incident could wildly vary. Give them a black and white guideline, and it's much easier to control.
Hubman, Allowing a 13 year old to wear a chain belt used as part of his "fashion" is a tad bit different than allowing a 6 year old to bring a pocket knife to school. That said, I was certainly (knowingly) pushing the boundaries and allowing Cam a little bit of room to experience natural consequences.
As a side note, Cam never took the belt off - an action that would have likely gotten him suspended, and one that *I* would have had to take responsibility for.
Matt-Man, yes, it is a bit disconcerting that teachers and school administrators put policy in place that exempts them from thinking.
I think ZTP are great in theory but stupid in practice. I agree that it is the parents are idiots. I mean even I think that utensil is freaking cool! And I am not a first grade boy. The kids should have been told that we don't take this to school. Or maybe it could be brought for "show and tell" if we ask the teacher first.
**shakes head***
can't beleive I agree with Grundie and also with Hubman. Your own words,it's the parents responsibilty, you had the ability and responsibilty to stop Cam from wearing what you knew was considered a weapon. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not. It is quite black and white. I don't see how you can say Zachary's parents are stupid but think that your actions were not...the place to teach the lessons is in the home, not risk zero tolerance problems at school to give him a lesson in consequences. Just my opinion...
I am befuddled by the irony and the stupidity of this post! Feel free to tell me how bad I am and how insensitive I am and whatever else you want to call me to make your self feel better!
I believe that the mind is the most respected weapon any one person can have....Can't wait until they start taking that away....
zero tolerance policies such as this one were originally to prevent a weapon being brought to school as a WEAPON. But teachers and administrators don't want to be hauled into court so they throw their hands up and punish kids for bringing things to school like camping utensils.
Any kid who has seen CSI or James Bond knows they can use a straw or a pencil or the Websters dictionary as a weapon.
The camping utensils had a knife on it that shouldn't be in elementary school. And I saw an interview where the parents said they didn't know he was taking it. Although I made school lunches...and helped to pack backpacks when the kids were little...I never had cause to pat them down before they left.
Situations like this one...people have given away the chance to use common sense.
Jormengrund, the problem with zero tolerance in the schools is that it usually absolves those who put it in place of any accountability. If it addressed truly black and white issues (like a speed limit) that would be one thing, but attaching it to subjective interpretation or allowing it to not differentiate between harmless and harmful (if there is a no knife policy at the school, does that include a plastic knife packed with a school lunch? Aren't scissors more of a danger than a plastic knife?) then it's idiotic.
Karen, ZTP's do sound appealing ... until you see one in practice. I just thought it was interesting that NOTHING I read held the parents accountable for sending their son to school with a pocket knife, but instead focused on how wrong the ZTP was.
snugs, just for giggles, I looked up out schools policy (Cam's belt actually falls under dress code, not zero-tolerance for weapons) and it reads:
Any article of clothing or jewelry that could potentially be used as a weapon or used to inflict injury like spiked bracelets, collars, necklaces, excessively long chains that hang from the belt, rings that cover more than one finger, etc., are not to be worn.
Worn as it was, Cam's belt couldn't be used as a weapon, couldn't inflict injury and wasn't hanging from his belt (it WAS his belt) so actually wasn't in violation of this policy any more than a decorative chain belt worn by a female student would be.
Just think of the service you provide here Dana. You get to blog and "meet" new people, make connections with new friends and provide some people to fill the empty spaces of their lives by coming here to troll errrrr, point out your faults. ;-)
I see the reasoning behind ZTP and understand the school's dilemma. Any policy that allows school admins to use their own judgment opens the school up to charges of favoritism, racism, sexism and lots of other isms. Also, if they use their "best judgment" and something bad happens? The school is 100% to blame and the lawyers get involved and things really get ugly. It's actually all very complicated.
doggybloggy, actually, I'm over here befuddled at the irony and the stupidity of you only posting a comment on this blog when you think you have a chance to belittle me. You actions defy words!
I believe ZTP need to be in place, to a degree. there has to be some discretion on the part of the principal of the school...Should he get 45 days in alternative school...NO
Should the school confiscate the item and not allow him to have it back until both his parents appear at the school and are spoken to by the principal - ABSOLUTELY.
Remember this device had a knife on it. A knife that could have harmed another student.
Have we not had enough violence in the schools?
In Nancy's boys school if you are caught using your cell phone, you lose it until your parents come to school and pick it up...no options. I believe there is also a minimal fine.
And to complete the circle, this policy was put into place in that school district because of the following incident:
A third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.
I find this ridiculous and would expect the teacher to be suspended without pay for a period of time.
snugs, one more thing here ... are you ready?? Your point is quite valid. I did suspect the chain belt would be a problem. I was taking a risk that the consequence would be nothing more than it was (and I could have been wrong) and it probably would have made more sense for me to insist he not wear it. I, instead, made an informed decision that the lesson Cam would learned from seeing the ramifications of his choices was worth the risk.
I appreciate your ownership here and am glad the school didn't go overboard with greater penalties for Cam, so I guess your risk paid off this time.
*zing* wow - you sure put me in my place! I only wish to be as smart as you one day. By the way - you are open to my belittling every day I just dont exercise that privilege.
Joker_SATX, it appears some people don't have it to lose in the first place!
katherine, I continue to be amazed at how narrow-minded zero tolerance policies usually are. The intent is well and good (usually) but it seems no one ever thinks about HOW the policy will be implemented.
I'll be the first to admit that Cam has walked out of the house with things in his pockets that I did not know were there. Things will be missed. We can't always be at 100%.
I find it interesting too, that people usually only complain about ZTP's when they are negatively impacted by them. I think many do not realize that prior to making these policies, public meetings are held where one can raise valid questions and get some of these details ironed out. Instead, it seems most just continue to put out the fire.
Jay, my primary mission in blogging is to offer a place where those who are far superior can come to tell me of all my errs. It just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling.
ZTP's really are a dilemma for the schools with litigation practices being what they are. The bonus in this one was that the parents didn't have to take any responsibility - it was ALL the schools fault. Want to make a wager on whether this one culminates in a lawsuit filed by the parents against the school??
Bond, see, unless a ZTP is very specific (i.e., no guns, no knives of any type with a blade meant to slice, etc) I think ZTP's are more harmful than helpful.
Violence in our schools is a problem, but again I will say that it ISN'T a problem with the school, and that is not where the accountability should lie.
doggybloggy, fess up ... you're just cranky 'cause you came here on a Thursday and didn't find any nekkidness.
ZTP is stupid. If they have to apply let them only apply to convicted child molesters and animal abusers; do it and die. I would not want to be growing up now. At 50 I think our childhood was about the last best. Rules and regs and overreaction went down from there.
A coworker of mine worked a second job for that package place and after 20+ years a security guard smelled beer on him and had the employee tested. They canned him, ZTP. WTF I know this coworker to be one hell of a worker, good job thorough job...
My son is at a public middle school this year (he attended private elementary school) and on days when he wants to take his lunch, I often pack him a bologna (I know, gross) and cheese sandwich. He likes mayo, so I put it in a small plastic container and throw in a plastic knife for him to spread it when he gets to lunch, so the bread won't be all soggy. So far, no one has said he can't have that plastic utensil and I really never thought about it until I read this. Hmmmm. Maybe you can't use a plastic knife, coated with mayo, to stab a classmate? Sheesh.
You definitely said it better than I did. your point on parenting is excellent.
yeah - whats up with that?
I kind of find it humorous that Doggy has time to come make nasty comments on someone else's blog, but hasn't put anything new on his own blog for a while now..
Only so much I can stand looking at the same pictures..
Kind of reminds me of porn, but at least porn's pleasing to look at over and over again!
Lu', not only are rules and regulations overboard, but common sense seems to have gone the way of fully leaded fuel!
Evil Twin's Wife, you better make sure there isn't a serrated edge on that plastic knife! Just sayin' ...
Howard Bagby, I didn't say it any better, just a little differently!
doggybloggy, I did it just to irritate you ... nahhh ...
Sometimes, one needs to consider their unintended message (thanks Emmy!). That and it really creeps me out that I get 1000+ hits to the HNT pics on Thursdays and only 1/10th of that any other time.
Jormengrund, well ... I'm not getting in the middle of that. His blog is of no concern to me :)
When it comes to weapons in school, I don't think it's unreasonable to adopt a zero-tolerance policy. But... it has to be well-defined and explicit and parents and students should be made aware and expected to sign an pledge form stating that they'll abide by it. It should have a grievance appeal process (for extenuating circumstances) and a reasonable offense to punishment relationship.
In this case, it might be a question of taking a good look at the code of conduct and ensuring it's logical and reasonable.
We have laws in society, and crimes have defined consequences... have we caused judges to stop thinking because we give them a specific set of possible and acceptable consequences to chose from? No... there's something to be said for personal accountability and for uniformity in punishment . Isn't that what we say to parents when one is more lax than the other?
How are we going to raise future law-abiding citizens if we're not willing to put "laws" in place and hold the kids to it when they enter their first mini society?
As for parents vs educators' responsibilities? As parents, we make choices with respect to how we raise our kids but we aren't accountable to anyone. School officials are accountable to every single parent and guardian that has a child in the system as well as to their employer. There's a limit to how much leeway they can be given under those circumstances.
And really, we aren't always aware of what our kids might have in their backpack or pockets every morning .... are we supposed to frisk them and put them through the TSA-like process as they leave the house?
You chose to let Cam learn of the consequence of his choices... right? Because at some point, they have to learn for themselves.
ZTP punishes the object not the action. This, in my opinion is stupid. Pencils, pens, fists, boots and teeth can cause real damage, even when used by a mad six year old. We should aways punish the action. Punishing the object takes away the possibility of right or wrong in a action.
I'm not a fan of zero-tolerance policies. IMO it sets children up to be excessively punished for what might have been one time mistakes. How can we expect our children to learn from their mistakes (I come from an extensive Montessori background so I'm a huge fan of self correction) if they aren't *allowed* to ever make them?
I'm not going to say much because I'm not in the confrontational mood today, but, that is the stupidest shit I have heard in a long time. A 6th grader? 45 days? WTF?
If the law actually held adults accountable 100% of the time, we would all be in jail for breaking the law, no matter how trivial.
And I'll also say that my kids have taken things to school that I knew nothing about. I can't search their back-packs every freaking day, but maybe I should?
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