~*~*~*~*~
I need to apologize. Some of you might remember that I had a blogiversary two months ago and drew four lucky winners from all of the commenters. What did Hubman, "She Who Shall Not Be Named" (nor linked), Vixen, Bina and Emmy win? Well don't ask them because they haven't seen a darn thing arrive in their mailboxes! Why? Because I haven't done it yet.
All that I can say is you will get your just (or maybe even unjust) reward. It might be Christmas, it might be Martin Luther King Day, it might even be Valentine's Day, but I will honor my word. I just don't want any of you to think I've forgotten you!
All that I can say is you will get your just (or maybe even unjust) reward. It might be Christmas, it might be Martin Luther King Day, it might even be Valentine's Day, but I will honor my word. I just don't want any of you to think I've forgotten you!
~*~
Speaking of forgetting, some of you might be wondering why I haven't been leaving comments on your blog lately. Well ... as you'll see, I've been just a tad bit busy. I've been quite loyal to my Google reader, but not loyal at all to commenting. Just know that I'm keeping up with you all and will be back when things calm down a bit.
~*~
What a week! Cam and I had something going on every night beginning Monday and it continues through Saturday.
Monday night was counseling (for Cam) and the phone event (more on that later)
Tuesday night was a PTO meeting (that's a post in itself) and the view of two (related to the phone event)
Wednesday night was middle school youth group.
Thursday morning was the "Dear Jane" moment (many moments this week) and then the band "Step-UP" night where Cam attempted to justify his need of a $5200 oboe.
Tonight is Cam's Football Banquet. I just finished making a batch of spinach balls (a recipe that Jay's sister sent me - I might just have to post it with her permission) that smell absolutely wonderful.
Saturday Cam and I are back at the Northern Illinois Food Bank in the morning and then church Saturday night.
Monday night was counseling (for Cam) and the phone event (more on that later)
Tuesday night was a PTO meeting (that's a post in itself) and the view of two (related to the phone event)
Wednesday night was middle school youth group.
Thursday morning was the "Dear Jane" moment (many moments this week) and then the band "Step-UP" night where Cam attempted to justify his need of a $5200 oboe.
Tonight is Cam's Football Banquet. I just finished making a batch of spinach balls (a recipe that Jay's sister sent me - I might just have to post it with her permission) that smell absolutely wonderful.
Saturday Cam and I are back at the Northern Illinois Food Bank in the morning and then church Saturday night.
~*~
So, the phone event ... a little background first ...
Cam has a cell phone. He has been EXTREMELY responsible with it. In fact, it's one of the areas where he has exceeded my expectations. At 13, I think he needs to start learning how to make decisions and learn to live with the consequences of those decisions. My part, as a parent, it to give him opportunities to do this within the realm of what a 13 year old brain can process. His phone is one of the areas I choose to do that with.
Cam has no time restrictions (other than during the school day) on his phone. He has been maintaining his grades, getting up in the morning to go to school, so I don't worry too much about how late he is on his phone. He is aware that if either of those things start being an issue, I will put time restrictions back on the phone.
Monday night, Cam was on the phone at 10PM. Now husband never checks on Cam at night, but Monday night he decided he was going to make Cam get off the phone (because he was upset about a decision I made over the weekend). He went into Cam's room and told him to get off the phone. Three minutes later he went back into Cam's room, saw that Cam was not off the phone and told him to get off now. Cam got off the phone, tossed it on to his bed and said to husband, "Take it" This was deemed as significant attitude (and I'm sure it was said with attitude) and husband demanded, "Pick it up and hand it to me!" Cam picked it up and - in husband's words - "He picked it up and with BLATANT disrespect and attitude 'pimped' his way to the door where I was standing while making a smacking noise with his mouth." At that point husband grabbed it out of Cam's hand and threw it at him. Cam ducked, but this is where the phone landed.
Ummmm .... yeah ...
Nothing else was said about it until the phone call I got Wednesday morning. Husband called and said, "I heard Cam on the phone last night. Whose phone was he using?" I replied, "His." Husband asked in an accusatory tone, "Did you go out and buy him a new one?" I replied (quite calmly), "No. The one you threw at him. If you were trying to break it you didn't throw it hard enough," at which point I was hung up on.
Now, we do not have a land line phone any longer. I will not have Cam without access to a phone, and the cell phones are in husband's name. I decided I had better pull mine and Cam's phones off his plan so that he couldn't cancel them and then sent husband the following email:
I got no response ... or so I thought. Apparently husband did send an email ... to my work email account ... but used "inappropriate" language and it was blocked. When he asked me Thursday morning if I got his response I told him I hadn't. He resent it yesterday morning. I'm not going to reprint the entire message, but the last two lines read:
... and you guys thought I was the one who was all about the money!
I did reply to his email in a calm, non-accusatory tone, and he came back with personal attacks seeing my lack of aggressiveness as a weakness (not surprisingly). I again responded with:
... and then I went to look at a 2-bedroom apartment here in town that becomes available December 1st. It is *perfect* for Cam and I and the rent includes utilities (with the exception of cable and phone) which is a nice bonus. I've got to come up with a significant deposit ($840) but should be able to get a no-interest personal loan through my employer to cover that.
Last night, when Cam and I got back from the "Step-Up" event, I sat down across from husband and said, "Have you come up with a plan yet?" to which he mumbled "Not yet." I replied, "Well, as I see it we have three options, either you live here for 6 months to give the economy a chance to rebound and to give us the opportunity to get the house ready to put on the market (he interrupted by shouting, 'I am NOT living in this house by myself') and Cam and I leave, or Cam and I stay here and you pay the mortgage for a house that you're not living in which is a terrible solution for both of us, or we all three stay here until spring ... which is probably the worst idea of all."
Silence ...
This morning he acted as if nothing - NOTHING had occurred all week. What? I finally call you on your shit - I'm ready to get out of this quagmire - and you back down? Ummm ... now what?
Cam has a cell phone. He has been EXTREMELY responsible with it. In fact, it's one of the areas where he has exceeded my expectations. At 13, I think he needs to start learning how to make decisions and learn to live with the consequences of those decisions. My part, as a parent, it to give him opportunities to do this within the realm of what a 13 year old brain can process. His phone is one of the areas I choose to do that with.
Cam has no time restrictions (other than during the school day) on his phone. He has been maintaining his grades, getting up in the morning to go to school, so I don't worry too much about how late he is on his phone. He is aware that if either of those things start being an issue, I will put time restrictions back on the phone.
Monday night, Cam was on the phone at 10PM. Now husband never checks on Cam at night, but Monday night he decided he was going to make Cam get off the phone (because he was upset about a decision I made over the weekend). He went into Cam's room and told him to get off the phone. Three minutes later he went back into Cam's room, saw that Cam was not off the phone and told him to get off now. Cam got off the phone, tossed it on to his bed and said to husband, "Take it" This was deemed as significant attitude (and I'm sure it was said with attitude) and husband demanded, "Pick it up and hand it to me!" Cam picked it up and - in husband's words - "He picked it up and with BLATANT disrespect and attitude 'pimped' his way to the door where I was standing while making a smacking noise with his mouth." At that point husband grabbed it out of Cam's hand and threw it at him. Cam ducked, but this is where the phone landed.
Ummmm .... yeah ...
Nothing else was said about it until the phone call I got Wednesday morning. Husband called and said, "I heard Cam on the phone last night. Whose phone was he using?" I replied, "His." Husband asked in an accusatory tone, "Did you go out and buy him a new one?" I replied (quite calmly), "No. The one you threw at him. If you were trying to break it you didn't throw it hard enough," at which point I was hung up on.
Now, we do not have a land line phone any longer. I will not have Cam without access to a phone, and the cell phones are in husband's name. I decided I had better pull mine and Cam's phones off his plan so that he couldn't cancel them and then sent husband the following email:
I have put Cam and I on a separate plan through Verizon and will begin (first billing is in December) paying that bill from my personal account. The October billing (Due in November) will be the last one paid through the joint account.
I got no response ... or so I thought. Apparently husband did send an email ... to my work email account ... but used "inappropriate" language and it was blocked. When he asked me Thursday morning if I got his response I told him I hadn't. He resent it yesterday morning. I'm not going to reprint the entire message, but the last two lines read:
I'm tired of working myself to death for you and Cameron only to be disrespected and ignored at every turn.
We need to talk about how to bring this marriage to an end without destroying either of our credit.
... and you guys thought I was the one who was all about the money!
I did reply to his email in a calm, non-accusatory tone, and he came back with personal attacks seeing my lack of aggressiveness as a weakness (not surprisingly). I again responded with:
Just wanted you to know that I got this and read it. I agree with much of what you've said and disagree with some of it, but I'm sure that comes as no surprise.
I'd love to respond to some of it but can't get the words to come out right in email and am concerned I'll make the first reasonable discussion we've had in a long time escalate into an email argument, and I don't want that to happen.
I'm sorry I've failed you. I don't know that I could ever become the person you hoped I would be. More than anything I want you to be happy and hope that you are able to find that happiness.
... and then I went to look at a 2-bedroom apartment here in town that becomes available December 1st. It is *perfect* for Cam and I and the rent includes utilities (with the exception of cable and phone) which is a nice bonus. I've got to come up with a significant deposit ($840) but should be able to get a no-interest personal loan through my employer to cover that.
Last night, when Cam and I got back from the "Step-Up" event, I sat down across from husband and said, "Have you come up with a plan yet?" to which he mumbled "Not yet." I replied, "Well, as I see it we have three options, either you live here for 6 months to give the economy a chance to rebound and to give us the opportunity to get the house ready to put on the market (he interrupted by shouting, 'I am NOT living in this house by myself') and Cam and I leave, or Cam and I stay here and you pay the mortgage for a house that you're not living in which is a terrible solution for both of us, or we all three stay here until spring ... which is probably the worst idea of all."
Silence ...
This morning he acted as if nothing - NOTHING had occurred all week. What? I finally call you on your shit - I'm ready to get out of this quagmire - and you back down? Ummm ... now what?
~*~*~*~*~
46 comments:
He hasn't backed down. Acting like nothing happened is just postponing the the resolution. I would talk with him again (an apology to Cam for throwing his phone is a good first step in backing down [and I know that won't happen]). Tell him your plan, made without his input because he is choosing to ignore the problem rather than deal with it.
If he can come up with a better solution offer to listen. If he can't move ahead. It is best for you. It is best for Cam.
One of my favorite snippets of my Grandmother's favorite prayers. It kinda makes me sad that AA has co-opted it.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace.
I agree with much of what Professor Fate has to say here...especially the prayer.
Hugs and prayers for you an Cam.
My take? I took a good look back at many of your blog posts regarding Husband. I have said it many times. I think it will be hard but even leaving with no money is better than staying with some.
If he will not live there alone, then tell him to get someone else, or get a gun.
Enough is enough!
Professor Fate, and being the passive/aggressive bully he is (oops! I was trying not to badmouth him) confrontation by someone else it to be ignored. I agree, an apology to Cam would have been a good start.
I am so ready to make this move and I may have to do it on a leap of faith - faith that whatever happens with the house is beyond my control.
Joker_SATX, honestly, the only issue with the money is being able to put up a good legal fight. His salary is 4 times mine and we know that he who has the most money wins the legal battles.
Innapropriate language in email?
(Hmmmm I thought thats what email was for?)
Now you stick to your plan, and leave Dec 1. He opened the door, "We need to talk about how to bring this marriage to an end...".
Not easy decisions, no matter what.
peace...
Doc, we have a pretty tight email filter here at work - bitch will get your email sent to cyber hell where some IT geek reads it to decide if he should allow it to enter your email box. In other words, this could get interesting.
theybelongtous, it seems like this should be easier. I mean I finally got to the point where I actually called apartments and looked at TWO of them. I've even filled out the rental application! And still ... I balk ...
He's hoping that by not acknowledging the issues they'll magically disappear. But we all know those kinds of things don't go away, they just fester and grow.
Stick to your guns, stick to the high road. But before you make the jump, make sure all your ducks are in a row.
you did NOT fail him, don't take that on yourself. Good luck it to you, sounds like you are really ready now..
Get out. Move into that apartment. Be happy. :)
Love ya!
Get the apartment, move on, document everything and you'll be well prepared. {{{Hugs}}}
I'm going to echo what Real Live Lesbian just said - get out and be happy. The door is open - dive through it quick.
You deserve happiness!
Hugs to you and Cam both!
~Emmy
Wow...the drama I miss by not being a Tweeter! Sorry this is the way it's been going, but he's being a gentleman and opened the door for you. Don't slowly walk through it--RUN!
Don't you wish "faith" had a fast-forward button, or at least a preview option?
Brian, I think that is a huge part of it. I also think that he remains surprised that I will not argue - I will not hurl insults - I will not tell him that he is the part of the problem that can't seem to be fixed because it won't accomplish anything. This is a significant change from my usual stance of defending my and Cam's actions.
snugs, well ... that's not entirely true. I'm not the kind of wife that is willing to put up with whatever just to live in a nice home. It was that very battle - that he provides financially and that should be enough - that has caused the majority of the issues. He is a great financial provider ... if he feels you deserve it.
Real Live Lesbian, why am I hearing Arnold Schwarzenegger in your comment?
It's what he wants, he just doesn't like either of his options.
I recommend that you retain an attorney so that you will be prepared to respond to anything that he might be planning.
Evil Twin's Wife, I'm thinking the blog is a fairly decent documentation of the past two years. That and the pictures I continue to take.
Emmy, I must admit to feeling just a wee bit giddy when I consider Cam and I having our own place again.
Osbasso, no kidding! You missed the whole "Dear Jane" announcement! Faith is fickle bitch. I think as long as I am honest with myself and prepare for the "worst" I'll be OK.
What the hell, why is he affraid to live alone in the house, boogie men? I could live alone. If I could I only find away to do that and keep my husband 'cause for the most part, mine rocks.
Follow your heart. That's the only advice I am willing to give.
My dad had this saying in a frame and it sits next to my computer:
"Use your difficulties. Many men owe the granduer of their lives to their tremendous difficulties"
- Spurgeon
From everything I have read Dana I believe the best thing for you and Cam would be to get out. It is time for you to be happy. Best Wishes.
I am sitting here just speechless. One one hand I would love to say that I am glad you are taking steps to get yourself out of a situation that is visibly harmful for you and Cam. It does take courage and you are displaying it.
But on the other hand I have to say WTF?!?!
Were you in the house when the phone throwing happened?? It appears that you weren't, but how could something like that have ended with a short matter of fact conversation THE NEXT DAY?! I know you don't want to cause a big scene and start a fight, but GOOD GOD WOMAN, stand up for your child. Call me a violent person if you want, but something would be flying at his head and I would make damn sure it hit paydirt. Just think of Cam sitting there thinking, "if my mom loves me, why won't she stand up to the guy who is abusing me."
And now you are leaving the decisions up to him???? You know where this is going, you are just going to end up in limbo longer and the damage to you and Cam will be that much worse. He has NO right to make decisions on the future of your life. He has given up that right and now you need to take control of your own future.
Jay, I'm not really fond of the options either, but something has got to change so you pick the one that hurts the least!
Lu', you'll love this. The option of him staying in the house came up the last time he "threatened" divorce and his exact words were, "I will NOT be a slave to this house." In other words, he's fine living there as long as *I* am a slave to the house, but when he loses his slave, he doesn't seem to need the house.
Anndi, I don't know - it might be time to follow my head. My heart is what got me here in the first place.
Dana:
My recommendation is for you and Cam to get out while you're still able. The temper and anger are only escalating, and it's not going to be much longer before that will overflow, and one of you, if not both, can get seriously hurt.
I'm sure that your church, or some other support network from that church might be able to help out, and might even donate time and effort to help you two move.
I know that you feel the need to see if things can possibly get better, or if you and husband can get some kind of discussion and resolution to the situation going, but to be honest all that's doing is giving yourself an excuse to keep on with the downward spiral.
Cut the cord.
I know it's not going to be easy. I know that there's going to be nastiness and pain involved.
However, there's more good in getting out now than there is in waiting, and letting potential danger threaten you both.
Howard Bagby, well, we'll see what happens here ...
Anonymous, you give me far too little credit. Asking questions is always better than jumping to conclutions.
I *was* at home, sleeping in the bedroom next to Cam's (husband and I haven't slept in the same room for months) and I heard husband go in the first time, but he was speaking in a reasonable tone so I just listened intently. The second time he went in he was still using the reasonable tone ... and then I heard the phone (wasn't sure what it was at the time) hit the wall. I was up off the sofa IMMEDIATELY and started a screaming tirade - "LEAVE.HIM.ALONE! HE'S DOING WHAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO - GETTING GOOD GRADES - MAKING GOOD DECISIONS. GET.AWAY.FROM.HIM!"
Cam actually came out of *his* room and asked us to stop fighting. I spent the next 30 minutes talking to Cam. I was ready to leave at that very moment but Cam wanted to be sure he could take his keyboard and guitar with his and was afraid husband would destroy them if he didn't take them.
So just put your WTF back in your pocket. This is being handled ... quite well ... thank-you-very-much!
Jay, is right Dana. Get a lawyer. And get a lawyer before you move out. And tell the lawyer everything. If you are lucky, your husband might end up paying for your lawyer.
The reality smack is always the hardest. I am glad you are able to take a calm and logical approach to it. Just don't let his indecisiveness stir you from taking the next step. You presented him with a logical path and he had no feedback or alternative plan. My prayers for you and Cam, hold strong and don't let anger take hold. Always approach this with a clear head and you will have peace in your decision.
I wish you were closer to me. In NJ I have connections and could help you and Cam get on your feet.
Now I have to be honest - I have thrown things at the wall. I once even threw a lamp across the room. But I never threw anything AT anyone. Especially not with enough force to actually hurt them.
You are so smart to get out while you can.
I say you move out before he beats you to the punch on something unexpected. This guy is a jerk Dana. I hate to say that about your husband but there is is. You and certainly not Cam, need to live in that stress. Is there anyway you can leave before 12/1?
Jormengrund, I'm thinking my church family will be more than happy to help out if they can. We'll see what happens this weekend, but I'm dropping off the rental application after work and I'll have the deposit money on Monday.
we're doomed, ahhhh ... the lawyer ... I did get a reference for one today. I'll do a face-to-face prior to leaving the house.
Shiny Rod, his behavior is really typical - nothing more than yet another attempt at control.
Karen, we'll find a way Karen. I'm not above shopping at Goodwill and the Dollar Store for curtains and household items! I've been farther off my feet than I will be this time!
dlk24, one of the challenges in all of this is attempting to find a balance between major upheaval and minor upheaval. We could probably find a temporary place to stay, but the stress on both Cam and I will be even more. I will leave immediately if necessary though - I'm ready to do that.
Dana,
I haven't even read the other comments yet, but here is what I honestly think.
First of all, I WILL SEND YOU THE $840 TO GET THE APARTMENT DECEMBER 1. And I'm unemployed, so that shows how much I hope you do this. Why let him decide what happens; YOU decide. Whatever he chooses to do with himself...well, whatever. He threw a phone at your kid! You've found a place you can afford, and where the two of you can start a real life. Please...just do it. YOU take control.
Screw the house, screw the money, screw the economy...don't wait until it's your kid's head making the hole in the wall. And you may not want to say bad things about him, but I think he's a bastard...picking on a 13-year-old kid. Yeah, I said it. And I'm glad.
Sweetie, I don't think your heart is telling you to stay.
You're doing what is best Dana, it may not be easy but it's whats best. Move yourself and Cam out of that house,
And I agree with Jay, get a lawyer fast...document EVERYTHING.
As difficcult as times may be, it is kind of exciting, no? Cheers!!
GAWD I am really loving these comments.. I don't have to say a word it is all done said already...
I'm with Prof Fate completely.
But I also wanted to add- him NOT making a decision IS a decision. He's being passive aggressive pretending like nothing has been discussed or brought up.
I would carry on with your plan to get the apt for you and Cam. It's a huge leap and one that is much needed for you and Cam to move on with your lives.
As Emmy said- the door is open, leap through it quickly!~
Now what? Now you keep moving forward with the plans YOU need to make for you and Cam.
Your husband sounds like my husband -- put upon and demanding of respects even though he rarely gives it to anyone else. You haven't failed him...sounds to me like there never was an opportunity for you to have been considered a success in his eyes.
Get your money together and get thee to a safe place where bullies aren't throwing shit at your kid (have I mentioned how much your husband sounds like mine?) and you can finally feel some peace.
What he does and where he lives is nothing you can control. You do what *you* have control over and what keeps you and your kid safe (from emotional *and* physical damage).
Good luck getting through this next part. It's gonna suck, but it'll be worth it in the long run. I guarantee it.
Also, Dana -- in a divorce, the Court takes things like huge disparities in income into consideration. If you can come up with the money to pay a retainer, a divorce attorney would likely be able to get your attorney's fees assigned to your husband through the settlement.
I also know that here in my state, throwing a phone at a child would be considered something of a crime -- a crime for which the husband could be arrested and orders of protection garnered (just went through a really similar situation with my best friend and her husband). Here, the only people who qualify for legal aid for a divorce are women who have temporary protection orders against their husbands due to violence.
I know things are different in every state, but it would be worth calling around and finding out what options you have available to you in that area -- the legal aid area, I mean.
Also, if you are considering using this blog as supporting evidence of your husband's behavior over the last two years, you may want to go back through and delete (yes, permanently delete) anything that could be used against you (like HNTs, discussions of having once participated in HNT, etc.) because by opening that door, you don't want to give him any ammunition.
Another thing they do here in my state is require open access ID/Password disclosure to any email or online accounts (blogs, social networking, etc.), especially if one party is accusing the other of inappropriate behavior or evidence of such online...You might want to cull your previous posts and go through and delete some comments on the ones you keep, too (like this comment right here).
one more piece of advice. I would not attempt to move out of the house when he is there. The drama could turn to more. I would take a day off when you know he is at work, get a group of people to help move and be gone by end of day. I would also not telling him I moved to. I think this guy has the potential to be dangerous, especially when he finds out he is not in control.
I think you know every word that I would choose to speak. I have to say though - that bs about having failed him is BIG BS and I sure hope you know it. I'm hoping it was your attempt to turn this into the "regular" end of a "regular" relationship - you now, the ones where both parties have made mistakes and both need to peacefully accept that it's not working. But I hope you know the truth - that this is NOT a regular relationship and your only failing was to have been taken in by a really good liar, manipulator and oh there are other words for it. But I know that one way to attempt to keep yourself safe is to play along with the illusion of "regular." Just remind yourself internally that it's a pretense you assume in order to be safe.
And as for the person who wondered why you didn't do more when the phone was thrown - well...today you are alive and both of you are unharmed...you did the right thing in that moment. Now just find the path out and stay on it. ~Lee
I will be happy when you are out of that house and away from that beast of a man.
I think it scares him to death that he's not going to have any control over you anymore once you and Cam leave.
That's probably the only thing that's stopping him from being alone right now.
Ghad, all of this brings back those fond memories of 1995. My favorite was when he threatened me with this, that and the other and I responded by drawing out half the money in our joint account, opening up my own and withdrawing Wally from preschool after he "forbid" me from picking him up. When he learned how I'd spent the day, he was all righteously outraged. I responded, "You said you were going to run off with Wally, change all the locks, and throw my belongings out on the lawn. That was a threat, and I took it seriously." His huff-n-puff answer? "As well you should." Wait -- what?? [eyeroll].
I think you'll do just fine dealing with Tarzan.
Of course he's ignoring things. If you and Cam leave, who will he bully and torment? The cat?
Get a lawyer. Sell what you have to but don't scrimp, get one of those mean divorce lawyers who make grown men wet their pants and cry for mommy!
Time to make your move!
The way you have portrayed this relationship over the last couple(?) of years, if you don't make the first move and file for divorce with a lawyer, you might lose out on the eguity of that house.
If your going to fight for money, you better get on it first. If you just want it *over*, move out and start your new life with Cam, you'll be fine.
Just my humble know nothing, none of my buisness opinion.
If you wanna be sneaky about it, interview/meet with the best-est most expensive-est divorce lawyers in town/area. In Georgia, they and their practice would have to recuse themselves from representing him.
If you wanna be less vindictive, you could look at Illinois' family law. Most states have divorce set-up so the most money doesn't win. IN theory, the working male will always have the most money. Children and females are usually protected from the effects of a large money discrepancy. He would need to work with you in order to avoid having the large money gap hurt him in s spousal support (and maybe child support even though he is not the biological father) fight.
If it is gonna get ugly, you need to be strong and start out being exceptionally unreasonable. The you can "give" away some stuff to get what you really want.
Professor Fate makes a really good point -- in Georgia, if you talk to an attorney about handling your divorce, even if you don't retain them, they will not even speak with your spouse about possibly representing them.
You could go have consultations with several attorneys, tying his hands, basically, of who would be able to represent him.
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