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Personalized license plates. Specialty license plates. Vanity plates. Call them what you want, but they've become a means of self expression.
I've got one on my car. It let's people know that they should run into me should their family member need a kidney.
Earlier this month, a federal judge ruled that South Carolina can't issue this license plate:
U.S. District Judge Cameron Currie said in her ruling that the license plates was unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment ban on establishment of religion.
"Such a law amounts to a state endorsement not only of religion in general, but of a specific sect in particular," Currie wrote.
OK, I get the whole First Amendment thing, but here's what I find interesting. South Carolina offers this plate:
So, it's OK to say, "In God We Trust," but you had better not believe? Trusting is good. Believing is bad?
And you know, it isn't like South Carolina doesn't have any other plates with religious symbols. You can run down to the South Carolina DMV and pick this one up for your 4 x 4!
What do you think? Is "In God We Trust" different than "I Believe"? Is a flag associated with God somehow less offensive than a cross associated with God?
I've got one on my car. It let's people know that they should run into me should their family member need a kidney.
Earlier this month, a federal judge ruled that South Carolina can't issue this license plate:
U.S. District Judge Cameron Currie said in her ruling that the license plates was unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment ban on establishment of religion.
"Such a law amounts to a state endorsement not only of religion in general, but of a specific sect in particular," Currie wrote.
OK, I get the whole First Amendment thing, but here's what I find interesting. South Carolina offers this plate:
So, it's OK to say, "In God We Trust," but you had better not believe? Trusting is good. Believing is bad?
And you know, it isn't like South Carolina doesn't have any other plates with religious symbols. You can run down to the South Carolina DMV and pick this one up for your 4 x 4!
What do you think? Is "In God We Trust" different than "I Believe"? Is a flag associated with God somehow less offensive than a cross associated with God?
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23 comments:
"In God We Trust" is an established American expression - just like "One Nation Under God". There has been tremendous litigation on these expressions and for better or worse, they are acceptable under the First Amendment.
I see using the same words that printed on our currency and monuments as being vastly different than announcing a your belief and possibly evangelizing that to others through your license plate.
But seriously? I don't see the point in vanity plates anyway. Here in Jersey ours our limited to supporting causes (Cancer, Volunteerism, Beach conservation, etc.), supporting your alma mater or supporting the armed forces. Nascar is a bit over the top. Save your money and spend it on something more logically.
I've given over to acts of hypocracy as far as the legal system and the first amendment.
To me, people with an agenda tend to over-emphasize the amendments, in order to make their mark, and get somewhere in the legal community. Then, after the hooplah has died down, they continue on their merry way.
To believe, to not believe, to be able to declare it or not is all onder the perview of the person making the declaration. For a judge to be able to rule this license place "unconstitutional" is actually a violation of the first amendment rights of those folks who would WANT to use that license plate in the first place.
Now what? We go around in circles with the Catch-22 legal proceedings until someone decides who the REAL idiot is, and then go bicker over something else...
Find a different way to make your way.. Don't use the amendment priviledges to stomp all over the rights we've been given here!
I am the wrong guy to ask about this right now. I am so down on religion I just don't know what to do with myself.
This may actually surprise you but I don't care what people put on their license plates.
If they want to have a vanity license plate with "I Believe" and a cross on it, then so be it, but I want one with my beliefs on there.
As a side note, I got excited when I read that first license plate as "Land of Unicorns" and then I put my glasses on and was disappointed. Such is life.
I don't think "customized" plates should be limited if it's not say, for the KKK.
I do wonder what the justifications and ramifications are behind the state's refusal to proceed with one versus the other? It's quite odd.
Seeing how vanity is a sin, I think it's goofy and ironic that people demand the right to have a faith based vanity plate.
Let's say that the courts said that the Christian plate is acceptable. Can Muslims, Ba'hai, Hindus Jews, and Animists ask for one based on their beliefs as well?
I think so-called Christians, of which I am one, should read and follow Matthew's teaching in the sixth chapter of his Gospel, beginning with Verse 1:
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Cheers Dana!!
As weird as it may be.... I think to many pple it IS less offensive to see a flag w/ "In God We Trust" rather than a big cross.
Karen put it really well though I think.
I think I believe in Matt-Man now. ;) Didn't know he preached! Lots of great answers here. But I'll say amen to Jormengrund. Love his answer!
I think there is definitely a difference between a plate with just the phrase "In God We Trust" and a plate with "I Believe" and Christian symbolism on it. As shocking as this is to some Christians, there are a lot of non-Christians who believe in "God" too.
And as Matt said, most of the people who are angry that the "I Believe" plate has been banned, would be furious at a plate that had a crescent moon and star with the phrase "Allah Akbar!" on it. Or even a plate that had the Star of David on it.
Of course personally I could care less. I think Vanity plates are silly.
The whole thing is silly I think. The way it reads to me is separation of church from state, which I would think nobody would be opposed to. That (the way I read it) is to keep the government from pimping one certain religion. This it doesn't seem is doing that. The separation of church and state has been bastardized worse than any other thing in the whole constitution. I would think I am fairly conservative and it wouldn't bother me if the tag said Alla or Budda or Darwin or Obama or whatever if the person is paying extra for it.
This whole hubbub is wicked stupid. I don't have vanity license plates-power to those that do-because I just don't want to spend the extra money.
But, if you're going to insist that the First Amendment forbids establishment of a state religion (which it does), then IMO "In God We Trust" would be more offensive than "I Believe" because it appears as if the state of NC is endorsing that motto. Whereas "I Believe" is merely self-expression by one of a group that can freely be attacked in our society nowadays without fear of recrimination-Christians.
Seriously, it's a money-making scam by states who wish to rake in extra dough from folks who apparently enjoy trumpeting their beliefs, likes, allegiances, etc. on their bumpers.
That all being said, I seriously could not care less what people put on their license plates (unless it's advocacy for armed insurrection or an "I Love Hitler" pronouncement). Knock yourselves out. I'm with Southern Sage on this.
There are many more important issues out there.
If you allow the I Believe and the cross, as has been said earlier, you need to allow all religions to be represented...plain and simple..If that is approved, then let them make the plates
Karen, I feel very similar to you in that vanity plates are often over-the-top. In fact, South Carolina offers a Shriner's plate. I find grown men, in silly hats, driving midget cars FAR more offensive than a cross and a stained glass window!
Jormengrund, or just stick a Jesus fish on your trunk. Same difference, right?
Joker_SATX, 17 hail Mary's maybe?? *wink*
Kim, the laws vary from state to state, but most allow a design based on a minimum number of pre-sales (400-500). Illinois (i.e. Land of Unicorns) has quite a few options.
Marsha, well ... see? And that would be the stickler! How do we give First Amendment Rights to everyone but the real wackos?
Matt-Man, that would be why they call them SPECIALTY plates rather than vanity plates. Then you aren't being vain, but rather you are SPECIAL! And yes, I would certainly support all religions having the same opportunity spew their vanity ... ummm ... errr ... SPECIALNESS as the Christians!
Vixen, I would agree. I think it is far easier for people to separate a national "icon" than it is a religious icon - even if they both address the same God.
Real Live Lesbian, think we could get 400 bloggers to commit to a Matt-Man/Bagwine plate?? Maybe a big old bottle of Wild Irish Rose for the background?
Jay, I'm thinking it would be fun to have a different religious plate on every car in one's household - keep all of the neighbors guessing ... or at least talking about you!
Southern Sage, Good to see you stop by! I'm with you on this - as long as the burden of increased cost for the specialized plate is absorbed by the person purchasing it why would it matter who regulates issuing them?
Al Penwasser, what? You think our FEDERAL courts have better things to do than to decide which license plate you can purchase? Yeah ... me too!
Bond, unfortunately, it looks like no one will be allowed to tout their religious beliefs via their license plates. Just don't mess with my NASCAR affiliation and all will be well!
As I understand separation of church and state means that the state will not establish a state religion as in the Church of England. The people who landed here all practiced religion and were free to do so. To say allow this plate to be printed is an endorsement of a specific religion is a stretch. What about all the other vanity plates ... Like the state established a specific school or NASCAR driver. Just a waste of time under the guise of protecting our "rights". How many people will be converted by a license plate????? How many Christian Colleges already have plates with their Latin motto's. Are we now afraid of symbols ... this has already taken up too much of our time when there are more important issues we face ... wake up!!!!!
What the United States Constitution says is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". Congress in this quote is the Congress of the United States. Please note that sentence in the Bill of Rights makes no statement on or about the legislative bodies in the states. My state and I believe most states have a similar clause in their State Constitution on the restriction of the state on establishing a state religion. Nowhere in the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution does it talk about a "separation of Church and State". Has the Congress violated the First Amendment as it pertains to the establishment of a religion? In my opinion, they have. As someone who goes to Church, I fear that many/all religions are dabbling into pushing their religious beliefs on their fellow citizens through the State and Federal governments too. Both of these actions by elected officials and church leaders is very dangerous. I have to respectively disagree with "Al Penwasser" The Constitution forbids Congress/the feds from establishing a religion not the states. Perhaps the Supreme Court has made this ruling and that's what "Al Penwasser" bases his statement on. Or maybe that's what is being taught in the law schools. If the Supreme Court has ruled that the First Amendment applies to the states it would not be the first time the feds have overstepped their Constitutional authority. The feds have overstepped their Constitution authority on most, if not all of the rest of the Bill of Rights. The bottom line on the vanity plates, in my opinion, is that a Federal Court has applied a clause in the United States Constitution that applies to the United States Congress and reached beyond their jurisdiction to "usurped" the Rights of the States.
I know there was a big problem here (Hoosierland) when they started offering In God We Trust. I think the main problem was that it was offered as a default (didn't have to pay extra like all the other "cause" plates) and even though there was a regular neutral default in addition to that, the BMV people were extra pushy about giving the In God We Trust ones out. I also heard, though not confirmed, that if you renewed your plates online that's the one you got, not the neutral one.
So I guess my only problem with that instead of having one default they had two and then they weren't in many cases giving people a real option between the two. It was almost forced. I have no problem with it being a paid, "cause" plate.
Isn't the problem with the state offering the "I believe" plate is that there is no opposite alternative?
A state not offering the opposite alternative may very well appear to be endorsing the message of the plate that is approved. I had a problem with the Anti-choice plates the state of Florida sanctioned for just this reason -- there was no pro-choice alternative for me to choose, and thus, I felt as if the state was endorsing a political position that didn't mesh with my beliefs. And as I was a citizen of the state (at that time), I had a problem with that.
I guess I'm one of those people who piss everyone off. But I find that the minute someone suggests that something faith-based not be issued as a recommendation from a government entity, believers get rabidly up in arms about how atheists are trampling their right to freedom of expression. Yet, when non-believers simply ask for the availability of equal representation, we are admonished for pushing our views on others.
It's really frustrating, honestly. Very.
waving ---HI DANA!
I'm so glad the thanksgiving post got big grin :)
Jeffrey and I have had many rough holidays for one reason or another and I discovered early on that turning it around to be with and hopefully help others made us happier
I have collected many good moments that then push me through the not so good moments
hugs Dana
I think I will get a license plate with "666" on it.
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