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I've kind of stopped writing posts in response to posts written by others because ... well? Seems someone is always getting bent out of shape when I do that, but I'm making an exception today.
Karen (Smiling Through It All) wrote a post yesterday that I have to address. When I read the title - Haves and Have Nots - I immediately felt my eyes bulge and jaw clench. I have a soft spot for Karen, although we've certainly had our ups and downs in the cyber world, but when I read that title, my first thought was "Here we go again."
I'm pretty sure there was even an eye roll thrown in for good measure.
Karen was addressing her most recent visit to a hospital that provides care to a wide socioeconomic range of people, from those who have private insurance and the ability to pay their bills, to those who do not.
I was certain I knew where her post was going, but I went ahead and took the plunge, accepting that I'd be pissed off when I finished reading. Then it happened. There was one paragraph that caught me off guard:
I'm going to just put it out here and say that I have always felt Karen was somewhat elitist. I know that is a word with serious negative connotations, but in Karen's case, I don't believe it's intentional. I think she's just been extremely fortunate to not have had to face many of the life struggles others have. It's difficult to understand where someone has been when you've never been there. I get that.
But in that paragraph (you really should read the whole post) I saw something in Karen that I've never seen before - something that I could connect with. It was good to see that Karen was aware of her surroundings and the vast discrepancy of people in her own back yard.
I was feeling really good about the post.
I shouldn't have read the comments.
There was one left by Becky at lifeoutoffocus. In all fairness, I don't know Becky. In fact, I had never even heard of her before yesterday. I did visit her blog ( Life out of Focus), trying to get a better grasp of the type of person who would write (in part):
And all that I could think of was really? REALLY? You are trying to justify your disgust with those people by allowing yourself to believe they think poorly of you? Really?
Those of you who have never had to spend a chilly November night sleeping in your car at a Wisconsin rest stop because you had nowhere else to go? Those of you who have never had to stand in line at a food bank so that you could feed your child? Those of you who have never worked a non-union, factory job for minimum wage? You are more likely the "have nots".
When I see people carrying their $300.00 Coach bags, iPhones and iPads, I am not envious of what they have. I may, for a brief moment, consider the groceries I could purchase if I sold their Coach bag on eBay, but I don't covet their things.
I have life experiences that they may not have. I have the ability to truly feel empathy for others. I have so much that is far more valuable than those Oakley sunglasses, and yet the Becky's of the world? They will likely walk right by me assuming I have nothing of value.
Everyone has a story. To lump all of those people into a giant bucket labeled "not willing to work hard" or "jealous of me and the things I have" is short-sighted, irresponsible and quite elitist.
It makes me wonder who the haves and the have nots really are.
I've kind of stopped writing posts in response to posts written by others because ... well? Seems someone is always getting bent out of shape when I do that, but I'm making an exception today.Karen (Smiling Through It All) wrote a post yesterday that I have to address. When I read the title - Haves and Have Nots - I immediately felt my eyes bulge and jaw clench. I have a soft spot for Karen, although we've certainly had our ups and downs in the cyber world, but when I read that title, my first thought was "Here we go again."
I'm pretty sure there was even an eye roll thrown in for good measure.
Karen was addressing her most recent visit to a hospital that provides care to a wide socioeconomic range of people, from those who have private insurance and the ability to pay their bills, to those who do not.
I was certain I knew where her post was going, but I went ahead and took the plunge, accepting that I'd be pissed off when I finished reading. Then it happened. There was one paragraph that caught me off guard:
Today I as sat in the dental office and truly observed those around me. I was wearing my $200 sunglasses, my $180 jeans and carrying my $300+ pocketbook. I checked facebook on my iphone and passed some time reading on my Nook. Other people in the room were wearing dirty, clearly second or third hand jackets and holey shoes. Again, on the surface we are getting the same care, but you really have to wonder if that is true. As I thought about the disparity in the room, I felt a strange combination of elitist-ism and embarrassment.
I'm going to just put it out here and say that I have always felt Karen was somewhat elitist. I know that is a word with serious negative connotations, but in Karen's case, I don't believe it's intentional. I think she's just been extremely fortunate to not have had to face many of the life struggles others have. It's difficult to understand where someone has been when you've never been there. I get that.
But in that paragraph (you really should read the whole post) I saw something in Karen that I've never seen before - something that I could connect with. It was good to see that Karen was aware of her surroundings and the vast discrepancy of people in her own back yard.
I was feeling really good about the post.
I shouldn't have read the comments.
There was one left by Becky at lifeoutoffocus. In all fairness, I don't know Becky. In fact, I had never even heard of her before yesterday. I did visit her blog ( Life out of Focus), trying to get a better grasp of the type of person who would write (in part):
I grew up in a poor household and would have totally been jealous of you and all you have. Now that I'm adult and married a guy who works hard and have held down my own job for years and have worked hard too ... we're middle class ... sometimes upper middle class on a good day ... I have $300 purses from Coach, Oakley sunglasses ... an iPhone .... etc ... and I know my sisters and other family who are still stuck in that rut look at me like how you think those other people looked at you. And yet I feel exactly how you do...I worked hard for this. Nothing has ever been handed to me...esp since I had to come UP to get here. I appreciate all I have because I remember when I didn't have so much. I will never make apologies for what I have and who I am. Neither should you. I respect other people's positions in life too and wish everyone could have a good life...but some people also aren't willing to work for it either...others do and that's the best they have and that makes me sad. Either way...bring your Nook and your phone and sunglasses. Never feel like you have to hide it. You're not flaunting anything...it's not like you're walking in with 100s just falling all over the place.
And all that I could think of was really? REALLY? You are trying to justify your disgust with those people by allowing yourself to believe they think poorly of you? Really?
Those of you who have never had to spend a chilly November night sleeping in your car at a Wisconsin rest stop because you had nowhere else to go? Those of you who have never had to stand in line at a food bank so that you could feed your child? Those of you who have never worked a non-union, factory job for minimum wage? You are more likely the "have nots".
When I see people carrying their $300.00 Coach bags, iPhones and iPads, I am not envious of what they have. I may, for a brief moment, consider the groceries I could purchase if I sold their Coach bag on eBay, but I don't covet their things.
I have life experiences that they may not have. I have the ability to truly feel empathy for others. I have so much that is far more valuable than those Oakley sunglasses, and yet the Becky's of the world? They will likely walk right by me assuming I have nothing of value.
Everyone has a story. To lump all of those people into a giant bucket labeled "not willing to work hard" or "jealous of me and the things I have" is short-sighted, irresponsible and quite elitist.
It makes me wonder who the haves and the have nots really are.
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24 comments:
This is a wonderful post. It made me feel something. I'm not real sure what exactly. While I do have the $300 purses and (about to have) a fancy new camera, gadgets and whatnot, for the last 2 years we've sacrificed deeply. No, we haven't slept in a car in the Wisconsin winter and I wish you hadn't had to do that either... but we've said no and been jealous of those who could say yes to whatever they want.
What we do know, though, is what we have and have not doesn't make us. If "things" make us, then our priorities are in the wrong place. Things are simply that. Things.
I'm not sure that's put exactly how I feel it, but thank you for the post. Now my mind is awake!
good observations, I like your response. My first visit to your blog, thanks to Jana :)
I don't begrudge anyone anything that they may have and I do not. Having "things" is great, but as you mentioned, some with a lot of "things" may be a have not in a way.
After all...I say often, "I may be broke but I'm not poor."
Broke means one lacks extra money, poor means that one has no hope, no friends...no purpose.
Cheers Dana!!
I read and commented as well as read the comments on Karen's blog.
I commend you as well for doing this piece. I agree with a lot of what you say here and social class is such a touchy subject.
I posted a while back
"Fuquay-Varina 90201"
about dealing with a pack of "have" moms and being judged by them. You could literally feel their eyes scanning your belongings searching for brand names. Uuggh That too could be why some 'have-nots" feel the way they do about the haves.
I just wanna say to all the "haves" just be careful. A lot of "haves" are becoming "have-nots". And you never know what your future holds. If you treat people kindly regardless of their handbag or phone you will not have to eat crow later.
Dana, I have agree with Matt's Statement here. Because there were times I was broke...but I was never poor.
In my opinion, it's almost the defacto rule that the wealthy must shut the poor out sometimes. The wealthy can't win. Even when they are being generous and giving of themselves and what they have, they get labeled as not giving enough, or labeled as looking down upon the poor and less fortunate.
There is always two ways of looking at things. I read Karen's entire post and I decided to take the position of being someone who is not as wealthy sitting in that waiting room. I came back to the same way my dad always taught me to think. Instead of begrudging the rich and saying things like, "What a lucky person she is to have all that stuff", I would have the courage and the creativity to go up to her and spark a conversation to ask her HOW she came about her success. But the initiative, creativity, courage and the determination would have to come from me first.
That is where I see you. In using Matt's words, right now you may be broke...but you are by no means poor. You are using all the elements I have listed above to try to provide a better life for you and your son. If memory serves, you had a ton of money that you walked away from in order to escape an abusive and detrimental relationship. I say that in retrospect you were poorer then, than you are now.
This is a good post!
For the record, even I know that I tend be elitist. It is no surprise that anyone else would perceive me in that way. As you said, I have been VERY LUCKY in my life and I do view the world through my experiences. I have taken the opportunities that I was given and worked hard to make the most of them. But I fully realize that without those opportunities, my life would likely be very different.
I do see Becky's point though. In her case, people from her past are resentful of the life she and her husband have been able to build. Of course all people cannot be lumped together, but she was speaking from her experience.
Regardless, I am glad that I surprised you. I'm not all bad ;-)
It's interesting to hear everybody come from a different perspective. It made me think about the fact that I don't notice labels. Not even on myself. The people in a waiting room probably didn't either. Maybe they were thinking about what a nice ass you have instead of where or how you got the jeans.
Great post! I generally don't look at the "haves" with envy, rather I look at them and think, what kind of idiot would spend THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS on a PURSE!? WTF?! REALLY?! I've been known to jam my shit into a paper bag - and I can STILL CARRY MY STUFF. Going to a hotel? I put my crap in my pillowcase - it's just more convenient 'cause I like to use my own pillow.
When I'm in my little ol' sixteen-year-old car, I'm laughing my ass off at the lady in the Mercedes who is stuck in the SAME TRAFFIC. (As soon as it's 25 years old, I can get historic license plates!)
Maybe I have a case of "reverse elitism?" I feel sad that people have to create their identity with STUFF. And just because someone is sitting in the dental office in ratty clothes, doesn't mean they're broke. They may have a job as an Environmental Scientist and just came in from a field project where they prefer to not wear their "nice" clothes, but rather their practical AND durable(because it has to take a beating and is generally made of sturdier fabric than shit you'd wear to the theater - once), field gear. But they probably aren't familiar with THOSE labels.
Oh, maybe you pushed a button! Because why, WHY, do people who have THINGS think people that DON'T are jealous? Really? That just screams self-centered AND insecure "Oh, everyone is looking at me in my [insert designer whatever name here] and they're soooo jealous." Most likely, they don't give a crap. I know I don't.
Although, for some reason, I really like watching the Real Life Housewives stuff. Me and my gal pal call them the "Crazy Bitches."
And people not trying "hard enough?" Really? The Universe isn't always fair, and people can work their asses off and still be visited by misfortune, expensive illness, tragic loss... that's just plain stupid on top of being elitist.
Here is an excellent quote by Bertand Russel:
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly."
Some of the richest people I know don't have much stuff.
Okay, that felt kinda good.
You know, here's a crazy thought. Maybe those people in in ratty clothes and no designer labels are that way not because they "don't work hard enough" but because they work two jobs to make sure their kids have everything THEY NEED? Hmm? Possible?
Nope, they're just lazy people jealous of their betters. ;-)
Karen is pretty up front about her tendency to be elitist. But, we have that tendency from time to time. I mean, we love to mock people at Walmart, right? What I find most interesting about her post was that most people probably were thinking much less about her than she was them.
Becky's comment? Came across as rather mean spirited and as if she was projecting a bit. It's easier to hate someone you think hates you.
Just my observations. I could be wrong. ;-)
It's kind of conceited to think all these nameless people are thinking about you at all.
I have been up. I have been down. I have been stranded in the middle. I have 'stuff', but not enough to make me above anyone else.
Hell, I have gone to the doctor's in ratty jeans and a t-shirt. And I had a job that paid 6 figures (oh those were the days). Would Becky look down on me?
You know, to look down upon someone because they don't have is wrong. Looking down on someone because they do have is also wrong. I do not agree with Desert Rat's feeling sorry for people who like creature comforts. Everyone has different ideas of comforts.
For me, I might buy a new kitchen device before a new dress shirt...because my time in the kitchen gives me more satisfaction.
And always remember, those people you step on to go upward will be still in the same spot as you slide down.
Ah, Vinny, you misquote and misunderstand what I wrote. I said I feel sorry for people who have to create their IDENTITY with STUFF. Meaning, they don't feel good about themselves unless they wear a certain label or drive a specific car.
I enjoy the "creature comforts" as much as the next person and don't deny that means different things to different people. Plus, I admitted that I might have a case of "reverse elitism." I realize that's just as bad as being an elitist.
Did you miss Bertrand Russell, or just ignore him? He speaks truth.
PS. I LOVE men who can cook!
why think about what people have at all? i like people from all walks of life. i never think anything about what people wear, drive, or what type of electronics people play with while sitting in public. if you think about it, then youre limiting yourself on experiences that life has to offer... i live in a trailer in the middle of the woods in georgia, carve wood for a living, drive a 2000 gmc jimmy with a crappy transmission, right now i'm wearing cut off second hand jeans and a t-shirt from a cousin in illinois with the logo from the fire department he works at, im wearing my reading glasses from the dollar store, and have sunglasses bought from the same dollar store.. and in a few minutes im expecting a customer here to go over a huge order.. but you know what? i bet i could buy and sell karen... i just dont give a shit about material goods...
Clay, you are an inspiration. I mean that. You are absolutely right. I just have a few elitist conspicuous consumers in my orbit that really push my buttons. I need to just let it go.
Desert: OK, Sorry for misinterpreting your comment.
I get what you meant now. And then, we agree. My comforts are different than yours and that is not a bad thing. We all have different comforts...mine revolve around food and music ..so that is where my funds tend to go. Others would think that is crazy...so be it.
Vinny: No worries. My funds tend to go to 90+ pt wines, reptiles, and books. People DO think I'm crazy! Viva la difference!
There is a pretty clear difference between people who dress down for work and people who are truly poor. If you've ever seen (or smelled) some of the charity care patients in clinic, you can tell it isn't just that they've dressed down.
And I have to say this is the first time in my life that someone said he could "buy and sell" me. That is pretty base thing for someone who doesn't care about money to say. I didn't blog to brag about what I have. I just shared my thoughts on the differences I noticed.
Clay raised a point that I had to come back and comment on- My wealthiest friend is a man that is a millionaire. He looks broke as hell and spends very frugally when we are out. Although he drives the latest Corvette off the assembly line he also drives a very modest car most days and shops at Roses. So looks can be very deceiving.
Good point Clay!
base or not, its making the bottom line point that because someone looks or smells bad doesnt mean that they dont have money.. it works both ways, lots of well off people look and smell pretty shitty, especially their souls...
Thanks for all of the comments everyone! This discussion has been quite enlightening in many ways. One of the many things I love about the internet is the diversity!
I think Knight saw me checking her out in the waiting room.
I don't judge people by the color of their skin or the size of their bank account. Most people are where they are at because of the person they see in the mirror. Most rich people I know got that way by working 16 to 18 hour days, seven days a week for 20 or 30 years. As a matter of fact, most people I know, rich or poor, got where they are by doing something, one way or the other. As the good book says more or less: give a person a fish, you feed them for a meal, teach a person to fish, you feed them for a lifetime. I don't look down at people who have less than I do and I don't hate people who have more. I just get a little frustrated at the person I see in the mirror every morning who can't seem to buy the winning lottery ticket. QCTM
When I see people who have lots of expensive name brand things, I don't assume they are rich, I always wonder how much credit card debt they have.
However, I am not a brand name person when it comes to clothes. Never have been.
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