~*~*~
I watched TLC's Sister Wives this week. I'm not usually a fan of TLC's "over the top" shows - in fact I get stabby just hearing the names Kate Gosselin and Michelle Duggar - but Sister Wives? I've become a groupie.
I don't think polygamy is for me, but that stance has little to do with the institution (laws) of marriage and much to do with what I perceive to be the inequity of power in a polygamist relationship. I don't care if Kody Brown has 15 wives, I just wouldn't want to be one of them.
I do have a fascination with polyamory - the practice, desire, or acceptance of cultivating more than one intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and felt consent of everyone involved - consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy.
I know I have at least one reader who has been a part of this lifestyle (and is no longer), and several readers who are practicing swingers (a lifestyle I used to think was completely different than polyamory, but now realize shares some similarities). I believe the idea of loving more than one person at the same time is far more common than many think, but I also believe most put their "societal norm filter" on and quickly condemn those who do.
I know the idea that love doesn't have to be specific to your one, life--long partner disturbs some of you and I'm OK with yourjudgment opinion, but think about it for a minute.
As I watched Sister Wives, I was impressed with the sense of community the Brown's appear to have. The kids work together for the common good of the family, the wives work together for the common good of the family. Kody? Yeah ... that would be my sticking point with polygamy. There is that power shift to a male dominated family.
An ideal polyamorous relationship offers that same sense of community - that same cooperative environment - without the power shift. Yes, I did say ideal and I realize finding that ideal would be challenging, but ... but ... oh hell! Let me have my fantasy!
One of the things I find bothersome about Sister Wives is this concept that they must keep their polygamist lifestyle secret (don't get me started on the inconsistency of having a show on TLC and keeping the lifestyle secret). The kids live in a bubble - attending a community school with other children of polygamist families. They've learned not to talk with anyone outside of the polygamist community.
That is sad.
When are we, as a society, going to accept that love and commitment are not one-size-fits-all propositions? That people can (and do) love differently? That embracing differences is far more constructive that fighting or "tolerating" them?
Maybe the answer is to give all people the "special" legal rights that only traditional marriage provides - just do away with marriage entirely.
Somehow, I don't think moral anarchy would ensue.
I watched TLC's Sister Wives this week. I'm not usually a fan of TLC's "over the top" shows - in fact I get stabby just hearing the names Kate Gosselin and Michelle Duggar - but Sister Wives? I've become a groupie.
I don't think polygamy is for me, but that stance has little to do with the institution (laws) of marriage and much to do with what I perceive to be the inequity of power in a polygamist relationship. I don't care if Kody Brown has 15 wives, I just wouldn't want to be one of them.
I do have a fascination with polyamory - the practice, desire, or acceptance of cultivating more than one intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and felt consent of everyone involved - consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy.
I know I have at least one reader who has been a part of this lifestyle (and is no longer), and several readers who are practicing swingers (a lifestyle I used to think was completely different than polyamory, but now realize shares some similarities). I believe the idea of loving more than one person at the same time is far more common than many think, but I also believe most put their "societal norm filter" on and quickly condemn those who do.
I know the idea that love doesn't have to be specific to your one, life--long partner disturbs some of you and I'm OK with your
As I watched Sister Wives, I was impressed with the sense of community the Brown's appear to have. The kids work together for the common good of the family, the wives work together for the common good of the family. Kody? Yeah ... that would be my sticking point with polygamy. There is that power shift to a male dominated family.
An ideal polyamorous relationship offers that same sense of community - that same cooperative environment - without the power shift. Yes, I did say ideal and I realize finding that ideal would be challenging, but ... but ... oh hell! Let me have my fantasy!
One of the things I find bothersome about Sister Wives is this concept that they must keep their polygamist lifestyle secret (don't get me started on the inconsistency of having a show on TLC and keeping the lifestyle secret). The kids live in a bubble - attending a community school with other children of polygamist families. They've learned not to talk with anyone outside of the polygamist community.
That is sad.
When are we, as a society, going to accept that love and commitment are not one-size-fits-all propositions? That people can (and do) love differently? That embracing differences is far more constructive that fighting or "tolerating" them?
Maybe the answer is to give all people the "special" legal rights that only traditional marriage provides - just do away with marriage entirely.
Somehow, I don't think moral anarchy would ensue.
~*~*~
26 comments:
I heard yesterday that the State of Utah is looking into filing charges. As afr it being left as a religous rite that couples may want to go through, I have written before, about drastically changing or getting rid of the legality of marriage altogher. I concur with you in some ways. Cheers Dana!!
The idea of building a family with more than one "mother" doesn't bother me. And if the parties feel freely committed to one another, that is great. I am a huge fan of the concepts that "it takes a village" and family isn't limited by blood or marriage.
But add the sexual component and call it marriage? Hell no. That doesn't offend my social norms, but it sure as hell offends my moral code.
Matt I heard the same thing on the news. But apparently since he is only married to one of them I think charges were dropped.
Here is a thought do not go on television if you don't want issues.
I would have a few years ago stood with a firm line of married is married and anything in between is wrong. Not so much anymore.
I think you might be on to something, and the way to go is do away with marriage entirely.
But then I am not sure what JW would do. Guess never have a relationship or sex again.
My brother has been living his life like this in NY for the past 20 years. He has 4 "wives" and 17 children between them all. Some of the children from different mothers were born days apart. Our family did not condone this but child services had no problem with it. All children are in school and well adjusted. They do not receive any public assistance and they pool their resources. Each woman plays a certain roll. I.E. cook, accountant, stay at home mom, etc.
This is not for me at all as I am too selfish but it appears to work for him so...
Matt-Man, Yeah ... I heard about that. Makes sense to me! let's spend state funds on breaking apart a family.
Karen, sooo ... by your definition the only thing that separates marriage from any other committed relationship is sex? I have a hard time with that idea as sex is just a small fraction of a successful marriage, and often times not a component of successful marriages at all.
Baseball Mom, Although I've never had real strong "this is right and this is wrong" opinions on marriage, I find that as I get older I am even more open to the idea that marriage can (and does) look different for a lot of people, and forcing it to be defined only one way is starting to cause some significant issues.
Anonymous, you actually summarize my point quite well. The issue here isn't that everyone should participate in a polygamist/polyamorous relationship, but rather we should all be more open to the fact that for some people it is their ideal ... and it works.
You know, I had never heard of this show until the news stories about the state of Utah filing charges as Matt Man mentioned. Like you, I started to shy away from TLC after all of the multiple births families started getting shows on there. BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL TRADING SPACES!!
Anyway, personally, I have no issues with polygamy or polyamory unless there's some sort of abuse or forced marriage occurring (I'm totally a Big Love junkie). I don't feel that I have the right to make judgments about the way that others find their happiness.
While I do enjoy making fun of these people, I don't have any real problem with them or their "lifestyle" because so what? They aren't hurting me in anyway, or anyone else for that matter. But, I'm sure some politician who is married and has had a string of mistresses over the years will get all upset about this.
I've said many times that one of the things we need to do most in this country is leave people the fuck alone. As long as they aren't a cult and nobody is being abused and they aren't cheating on taxes or running a criminal enterprise leave them alone and let them live their lives the way they choose.
I don't think anyone's marriage is anyone else's business--unless it is abusive. I *really* don't understand why polygamy is a felony, of all things.
Let's see:
3rd DWI conviction: Class 3 felony.
Having more than one spouse: Also a Class 3 felony!
Which person would I rather have free in society? Hmm...
I'd prefer multiple husbands, personally--rather than being one of many wives. :D
I agree with what most everyone has said. It's not anyone's business if it's occurring between consenting adults. Period. I believe I'm the reader you mentioned who used to live the poly life, I've also been a swinger. I still believe it to be worth the effort if all parties are willing to do the communication work, however I have a tendency to fall for monogamous men, and it isn't fair to them to try to force my ideal on them. So I choose to be monogamous now, for the sake of keeping the relationship I do have healthy and loving. I'm quite content. ^_^
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly...
When my brother and sis in law got divorced my sis in law and nephew went to live with her best friend and her bf's husband and 2 kids. Financially my sis in law can afford her own home, but she wants to live with other adults to lessen the burden on her. They have been living like this for over 2 years and intend to stay like that unless my sis in law gets into another relationship.
They eat meals together, share utilities and expenses and help care for one another's children. But there is no sexual component. The married couple have their sex life and my sis in law dates from time to time. Because all the adults travel extensively for work, the situation suits all their needs and is healthy for them.
There is a commitment. There are 2 mom figures. But it is nothing like a marriage.
Dana,
In answer to your question. We will accept the fact that people can love differently, when we accept the fact that skin color really doesn't matter, or that what you believe religiously should not be held against you simply because its different from others....
Until that day, I guess Polygamy and Polyamory is in the shitter!
Back in the day - I had better sex outside of my marriage, but a better working & day to day relationship with the person to whom I was married. Until I got caught.
I guess that with marriage we're trying to make one person fulfill all our needs when in fact, no one person should be expected to assume all those roles. Some people can, but most can't and that forces the majority of us to compromise.
(Definition of a good compromise - when all negotiating parties are equally dissatisfied with the results.)
Sarah, DAMN I miss Trading Spaces ... and it sounds like maybe I should start watching "Big Love"!
Jay, oh but jay! They are hurting you because their blatant disregard for the sanctity of marriage is ... well ... EVIL! Or something like that ...
Ms. Inconspicuous, I understand that when safety is an issue someone needs to step in, but that doesn't mean that one's opinion regarding what is morally right makes a situation unsafe. And I'm thinking if I had multiple husbands the trash might just make it out every week ;)
boo, you are my coveted poly reader :) When watching just the first episode of Sister Wives it's so clear that communication - good AND bad - is so critical to the success of such an arrangement. And I agree, one would need to find a group of very like-minded people to make such a relationship work - attempting to "convert" someone would be asking for trouble.
Karen, I think I am confused. Your "moral" component isn't just sex, but the marriage? The living arrangement is fine exclusive of sex and marriage, but if your SIL wanted to marry into her current household, that wouldn't sit well with you? Am I there?
joker-satx, since skin color and religion aren't concerns for me, I can wallow in Polygamy and Polyamory then, right?? RIGHT??
bikinfool, and that has always been my draw to polyamory! I don't have just one friend - I have several friends and I get different things from each of them. Why oh why do we suddenly decide we can only love one person (romantically) at the same time? It makes no sense ...
I have been married twice. I also had a relationship with two women years before being married. We did not live together, but we knew that we were a trio of free-educated people who lived and loved...It was only for about 9 months as one of the women left town for a new job...nut.
I care less how people live and raise their families as long as there is no abuse (mental or physical) and the children are well-fed, educated and cared for.
For me? I am now a one partner person. I have no interest in having 2,5,10 'wives'...
Hmmmmm, sister Wives huh?
Vinny "Bond" Marini, what's odd in this case is that it's actually society doing the most "harm" to these kids by pushing their values on them.
Doc, not actual sisters ... get your mind out of the gutter!
Personally, I don't think I could ever be involved in polygamy...I don't want to share and I am quite content in my monogomous relationship. I don't expect him to fulfill ALL my needs (and vice versa). Our sex life is good, we communicate well, we are on the same page as far as raising the kids and morality goes. Everything else, in the scheme of things, isn't important enough to go looking oustide the marriage and anyway, I would probably need about 50 other husbands to fulfill those things. One is quite enough thank you! Also, polygamy appears to be skewed towards it being a male dominated relationship. Usually a whole lot of wives and only one husband. Doesn't seem fair to me. But, if that is what other people want their relationship to be, more power to them. All I ask is that they all get hit with the marriage tax penalty like the rest of us. ;)
As for swinging goes, I don't see that as being a relationship, more of a lifestyle. From what I've seen, the swingers are more interested in "playing" and sex is the the majority of the contact. I don't see the day-to-day support that comes from being in a committed relationship like the polygamists have established. I'm not comdemning swingers..sex is good! (or as my dad says, "There is no such thing as bad sex, some is just better than others.")...it's just not something that is for me.
Sedorah, DAMN! There go my plans for moving in ;)~
It's every young man's dream to have multiple partners/wives. As I am no longer a young man. I don't see this as such a dream to achieve. I have over 20 years of marriage experience and sometimes I think one wife is too many. (Just kidding). I guess you could argue that with all of the single women and single mothers that there might be a savings with a Polygamy theme when you factor in who is paying the bill for the kids. The kids I am referring to, are the ones that have dead beat dads and my/your tax dollars are supporting the kids.
Regardless, one husband, many wives, one wife, many husbands, man and man, woman and woman, etc, etc. Who's business is it? I don't think it's the state's or the federal government's business. At least it shouldn't be the government's business unless you are taking money from them to raise your kids because you can't pay for your labor of "love" (dead beat mom or dad). It shouldn't be any religion pushing their beliefs on you. I don't want to push my Church's beliefs on anyone and I don't want any other religion pushing/mandating their beliefs on me. And we certainly don't want the government mandating too much of anything not already covered in the Constitution.
So in closing, I think that "different strokes for different folks" is ok with me. at least as long as it isn't costing me any money, not being forced on me, and not hurting anyone. But to be 17 or 18 years old and have a bunch of wives. What a dream, like winning the lottery. Oh well!
I haven't watched Sister Wives, in fact this morning was the first commercial I seen about it.. (so out of the loop). However I am in a Polyamourous relationship, it has it's up's and down's. For some it's easy, me, I have a co-dependency dependency, so it's hard. I'm trying to overcome, and since it's our one year anniversary for this "relationship" negotiating has thus started, because He my Dominant knows and understands that he is not meeting all my needs. So this is where the "Truth will set you free" moment comes in, and communication.
~c
"We're Doomed said - I have over 20 years of marriage experience and sometimes I think one wife is too many. (Just kidding)"
No he's not.
The beer label caught my eye...
I brought a six pack home from Moab last time I was there. GOOD STUFF!!
I would like to exchange links with your site amidlifescrises.blogspot.com
Is this possible?
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