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Probably not the title many of you are expecting to see attached to a post on my blog, but it is something I have been struggling with for months.
When Cam and I found "our" church I was thrilled. It was a place that offered contemporary Christian music, a multi-media sermon presentation that was applicable to everyday life, a middle school youth program that engaged Cam, and opportunities for Cam and I to regularly serve within the community. It was unlike any church we had ever attended and it was a great fit for us.
Then things started happening ... in the span of just two short months ...
Cam was removed from his small group bible study one Wednesday night. Why? During discussions, Cam's small group leader insisted that homosexuality was a sin. Cam spoke up saying, "Doesn't God love everyone?"
His small group leader became flustered and couldn't quite come up with an explanation. Cam then looked at him and said, "That's what I thought. The Bible doesn't say it's a sin to love. God loves all people and doesn't care who they love. In fact, he wants all people to love each other. THAT is what the Bible says."
He was promptly asked to leave the group for the remainder of the night. As a side note, I was very proud of him!
There was the job I applied for within the church (and which I discussed - generally - on the blog). It was a wonderful opportunity - for both me and for the church. The position was an administrative/budgeting specialist for the Adult Ministries group - my skills were an amazing match.
The position of the church is that there are only TWO situations where divorce is acceptable; physical abandonment and physical infidelity. Anyone notice something missing?? Like emotional, verbal and/or physical abuse?? One of the reasons I decided to handle things with husband the way that I did (moving to a safe place but remaining married) was due to the influence of the church's position.
During the job interview I was completely upfront about my personal situation. I knew it was something that would eventually surface anyway and I felt transparency was prudent.
I didn't get the job. I was told that I possessed the best match in skill set for the position, but that the elders were concerned about my personal situation - that people (generally) going through turmoil in their personal lives create disruption in the work environment.
What?? Really?? You're going to stand up on Sundays preaching that the only acceptable reasons for divorce are abandonment and infidelity, then tell me that staying in a marriage because it doesn't meet the church's criteria for divorce creates disruption in the workplace?? Those sure don't seem like supportive actions of the church's position.
Lastly, there was the incident during the second to last Wednesday of the 2009-2010 middle school youth group session involving one of the kids I transport each week (it's Cam plus three of his friends that attend weekly). Understand that we average 300 6th-8th graders each Wednesday night, and we are lucky to have 30 adults on any given night. This age group can be confrontational, physical and unpredictable.
There was an altercation between "Sam" (one of "my" kids) and a 6th grader at the end of the evening (the kids have socializing time between 8:30-9:00). On THREE occasions, a different adult leader saw what was going on - told the boys to stop - then walked away. The boys didn't stop. Both "Sam" and the 6th grader took the situation way to far and the 6th grader got the brunt of it. Neither boy was seriously injured, unless you count the injury to their man-child pride.
The boys' stories were quite different, and no one saw the entire incident, so later in the week security tapes were reviewed (security is quite stringent at the church - for every one's safety). It was determined that "Sam" initiated the incident and then continued to antagonize the 6th grader each time they were separated by an adult. There needed to be consequences.
I received a call from the middle school pastor at 5:15PM the following Wednesday. "Sam" was being suspended from the middle school youth program for the entire summer, including the week-long summer camp he was scheduled to attend (at a cost to his parents of $365). I was crushed.
Call me crazy, but when I see a "bad" child I want to attempt to help them. I want to offer structure and disciple coupled with unconditional love. What did the church offer "Sam"? The reinforcement that he wasn't "good enough" for those things - he would be excluded from the program for three months.
It didn't sit well with me. Since when do we - as the body of Christ - take God away from those who need it most? Where is mercy if it can't be found in the church?
I am struggling. Struggling with the hypocrisy I see between the teachings of the church and the actions of the church. Struggling with my realization that Christ Followers aren't perfect, even when they are leaders of the church. Struggling with teachings that I believe are bordering on archaic at times. Struggling with wanting to belong but feeling very much an outsider. Struggling with holding the church to a higher standard than I would anyone else.
I am guessing much of this is why those of you who don't dabble in organized religion ... well ... DON'T. For those of you who do dabble in it, how do you resolve this conflict in a rational and logical way (i.e. not in a "It's God's will" way)?
When Cam and I found "our" church I was thrilled. It was a place that offered contemporary Christian music, a multi-media sermon presentation that was applicable to everyday life, a middle school youth program that engaged Cam, and opportunities for Cam and I to regularly serve within the community. It was unlike any church we had ever attended and it was a great fit for us.
Then things started happening ... in the span of just two short months ...
Cam was removed from his small group bible study one Wednesday night. Why? During discussions, Cam's small group leader insisted that homosexuality was a sin. Cam spoke up saying, "Doesn't God love everyone?"
His small group leader became flustered and couldn't quite come up with an explanation. Cam then looked at him and said, "That's what I thought. The Bible doesn't say it's a sin to love. God loves all people and doesn't care who they love. In fact, he wants all people to love each other. THAT is what the Bible says."
He was promptly asked to leave the group for the remainder of the night. As a side note, I was very proud of him!
There was the job I applied for within the church (and which I discussed - generally - on the blog). It was a wonderful opportunity - for both me and for the church. The position was an administrative/budgeting specialist for the Adult Ministries group - my skills were an amazing match.
The position of the church is that there are only TWO situations where divorce is acceptable; physical abandonment and physical infidelity. Anyone notice something missing?? Like emotional, verbal and/or physical abuse?? One of the reasons I decided to handle things with husband the way that I did (moving to a safe place but remaining married) was due to the influence of the church's position.
During the job interview I was completely upfront about my personal situation. I knew it was something that would eventually surface anyway and I felt transparency was prudent.
I didn't get the job. I was told that I possessed the best match in skill set for the position, but that the elders were concerned about my personal situation - that people (generally) going through turmoil in their personal lives create disruption in the work environment.
What?? Really?? You're going to stand up on Sundays preaching that the only acceptable reasons for divorce are abandonment and infidelity, then tell me that staying in a marriage because it doesn't meet the church's criteria for divorce creates disruption in the workplace?? Those sure don't seem like supportive actions of the church's position.
Lastly, there was the incident during the second to last Wednesday of the 2009-2010 middle school youth group session involving one of the kids I transport each week (it's Cam plus three of his friends that attend weekly). Understand that we average 300 6th-8th graders each Wednesday night, and we are lucky to have 30 adults on any given night. This age group can be confrontational, physical and unpredictable.
There was an altercation between "Sam" (one of "my" kids) and a 6th grader at the end of the evening (the kids have socializing time between 8:30-9:00). On THREE occasions, a different adult leader saw what was going on - told the boys to stop - then walked away. The boys didn't stop. Both "Sam" and the 6th grader took the situation way to far and the 6th grader got the brunt of it. Neither boy was seriously injured, unless you count the injury to their man-child pride.
The boys' stories were quite different, and no one saw the entire incident, so later in the week security tapes were reviewed (security is quite stringent at the church - for every one's safety). It was determined that "Sam" initiated the incident and then continued to antagonize the 6th grader each time they were separated by an adult. There needed to be consequences.
I received a call from the middle school pastor at 5:15PM the following Wednesday. "Sam" was being suspended from the middle school youth program for the entire summer, including the week-long summer camp he was scheduled to attend (at a cost to his parents of $365). I was crushed.
Call me crazy, but when I see a "bad" child I want to attempt to help them. I want to offer structure and disciple coupled with unconditional love. What did the church offer "Sam"? The reinforcement that he wasn't "good enough" for those things - he would be excluded from the program for three months.
It didn't sit well with me. Since when do we - as the body of Christ - take God away from those who need it most? Where is mercy if it can't be found in the church?
I am struggling. Struggling with the hypocrisy I see between the teachings of the church and the actions of the church. Struggling with my realization that Christ Followers aren't perfect, even when they are leaders of the church. Struggling with teachings that I believe are bordering on archaic at times. Struggling with wanting to belong but feeling very much an outsider. Struggling with holding the church to a higher standard than I would anyone else.
I am guessing much of this is why those of you who don't dabble in organized religion ... well ... DON'T. For those of you who do dabble in it, how do you resolve this conflict in a rational and logical way (i.e. not in a "It's God's will" way)?
~*~*~
23 comments:
And yet another reason why I do not subscribe to any organized church or religion.
I pray probably a half a dozen times a day, mainly for others. I don't need a middle man (i.e. some pastor or church cleric) telling me what to do.
God is, what God is. Church is a manufacturing of and by men. Cheers Dana!!
If this were me, I would be looking for a new place to worship.
There was a church I attended several years ago that seemed wonderful but when I found out someone was "kicked out" or nicely told they didn't belong there when she left her marriage I wasn't having it. To me, church is like a hospital for sinners, and that includes ALL of us. Not just those with "little sins".
And those that told Sam he couldn't go to camp, youth group, etc made a big mistake, too. Incidents like that drive people away and give religion a bad name.
It's not so much the religion as the people that follow it. I consistently find the most judgmental people to be those in the church, while those outside of it are entirely more helpful and loving. Just not sure what it is about church that makes people think they're better than anyone else-- and this is coming from the daughter of 2 ministers. I've been in church my whole life... UGH.
As my dad would say, it's time to church shop again.
My parents found great support and community in their church for years, but a minor change created what they felt was a loss of focus on the true Christian values and therefore a loss of community. They spent several months going to various churches until they found one that was a good match for them again. As they said, they praying they can do on their own - it's the community and service that you get with a group that they wanted. They did find one eventually, but decided when they moved that they would be approaching their new church search as a dating process.
Oh, and hearing the story about Sam and what Cam said in Bible study reminded me of another phrase my dad uses a lot with church elders "hate the sin, love the sinner". Messes with them every time because THAT is what the Bible says. :)
A church has to function in the reality of the world. It can't be all rainbows and sunshine just because it is a holy organization. I think it is unreasonable to expect a church embrace a trouble-maker just because they are a church. If it was a secular organization, that suspended Sam, would you have the same reaction? Don't we have to consider the safety of other kids? Shouldn't the church limit their liability by disciplining the person who was wrong?
I am Catholic. I go to mass weekly because it makes me feel grounded and complete. I don't feel that I have agree with every teaching of my church to be a good Catholic. Turning my back on organized religion because I don't agree with their stance on homosexuality (for example) would be like "throwing the baby out with the bath water". I get what I need and what I want out of the church and my connection with God.
It is not an all or nothing for me.
Leaving a church that you are uncomfortable with does NOT mean you are walking away from God. Your only obligations are to your God and to yourself. So, if you aren't happy with that church, then leave and go elsewhere. Your not letting God down and your not letting yourself down by doing so.
As for "Sam," this is one of the negatives of large churches. There isn't any focus on the individual and their development as people and as Christians. The church completely loses sight of its obligations to its members.
First of all can I say that I was pleasantly suprised to come here today and not have another HNT. Not bashing HNT at all, but I thought you had outgrown that until last week...so glad to see this post! I don't dabble, I participate in organized religion for purely self fish reasons, it makes me feel good & feeds me spiritually. I don't like everything that my denomination stands for but I take what I do like from it and leave the rest alone. Divorce is a sin, but it is also a forgiveable sin. I have had homosexual friends of both sex's all my life and I do not judge them and they do not judge me. Middle school age boys needs discipline and consequences, at home, at school and at church youth groups. If not a group of 300would be total chaos. If I left my church everytime something wasn't to my liking I would be out of churches to attend. It seems to be a pattern for you, pick your battles. Instead of being offended or defensive why not look at it from their eyes too? You have alot of drama and crises in your life, that is not in the best interests of running a church office where a peaceful and grace filled enviroment is to be expected. You have your hands full with your own son, but are now trying to rescue another, it seems to be that you need to take care of your own house before you can be of any good to the others.
Matt-Man, I had a pretty good idea of your position on this and likely understand it far more than I did a year ago.
Mrs. D, my concerns for "Sam" are EXACTLY what you stated. This is actually a HUGE transition within the church - from middle school ministries to high school ministries - they lose many kids due to social/school/family issues during this time. To intentionally push one away just seems silly.
Curvy Jones, I *know* this, I just have a REALLY difficult time putting it into practice. My issues here are not with God, but with people - flawed sinners that they all are :)
Emmy, I feel such a sense of obligation to the church. They have been there for Cam and me (helped us move into the new place, provided a scholarship for Cam to attend summer camp, etc.) prior to these events. Church shopping sounds so ... so ... traitor-ish. Shouldn't I offer the very mercy I'm looking for?
Karen, your comment is EXACTLY the internal argument I have every time I think about this, and I think my best bet is to find that very comfortable gray area!
Jay, "Sam" needed consequences for his actions, but yes - the church did (IMHO) forget that he was a 14 year old kid who makes mistakes. And yes, I would say this is likely because he's just another one of 300 faces, and not an individual.
snugs, don't get too excited about the lack of an HNT here this week. It's likely they'll be back on occasion. I haven't "grown out" of them but rather have "grown up" with them.
I certainly understand the church's side of things, but that doesn't make it any less evident that what they say on Sundays doesn't always match their actions Monday-Saturday (much like the rest of us).
And that drama and crisis? I've thought long and hard about that - am I inviting it into my life? Absolutely, and you know what? I wouldn't change it for the world if it is the only way I can actively participate to make change. If I just let the battle move on to someone else, they might not choose to fight it either.
It's all in how you look at it!
I am proud that Cam stood up for gay people and I hope that others see his exclusion/expulsion as "bullying"...and stand up to the church. Given how generally intolerable so-called religious folks are, I doubt it.
That ties in with Sam. I understand your POV on Sam, but he must suffer the consequence of initiating the brouhaha each time. If you come to his rescue every time, what will he learn from that? More than likely, he will continue to agitate the waters and he will come to rely on you for protection.
My girls understand that if they screw up, they will face the consequences for their actions. If they are willing to accept that, then experience is the best teacher.
I do hope that people stand up and make their voices heard.
Have you read the book 'The God Gene'? It's a book that explains why some people are more religious than others.
Here's the wikipedia short version. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene
Yep. That's EXACTLY why I don't dabble. I've yet to find a church that I think is actually God-like.
For me, Church just infuriates me, so I don't go.
And honestly, I do my own spiritual thing and I have never felt more fulfilled, I don't need to make an appearance in a church to prove anything.
Dan, I don't comment often but this week you have compelled me to speak.The Bible Does speak of homosexuality. In the book of Leviticus, chapter 20. The Bible speaks of divorce in the New Testament, Book of Matthew, Chapter 5. The Bible also speaks of Judging others in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 7.
I am not a holier than thou person and I do not attend church regularly. I do think of myself as a Christian. my relationship with God is my business and how my heart feels. I am not homosexual, but I have friends who are, I do not believe it is my place to judge their lives. I love them as friends and would do anything for them. If that makes me wrong, I will be judged before God....not before man.
Church is what it means to you, what is in your heart, and what you make of it.
As far as the problem child...help him if you feel the need to try, but don't judge others because they choose not to try. the Bible also speaks of discipline with children....Proverbs, Chapter 13 Verse 24!
Hope I am not coming across as a bible thumper because I believe each person has to live life according to their own heart and beliefs.
Wishing the best for you and Cam whatever the outcome!!
Nolens Volens, I think there is some misconception that I didn't think consequences were necessary. That is not the case - I just felt the one they offered was not the best option. Why not dole out a consequence of - say - putting together middle school ministry journals for 6 hours? I'm a HUGE fan of consequences that offer opportunity!
Mike, interesting theory. I would have to say that there are definitely certain personality types that lend themselves more to being believers, so a gene theory isn't that much of a stretch.
Gina, I don't have the same expectations for the general church population as I do for those in leadership positions, but I am that way with all organizations - the more visible you are, the higher the expectation.
Kim, I'm starting to think church may infuriate me, yet I really do have a draw to the sense of community - likely because I don't have any other "community" or family.
Granny Nanny, ahhhh ... Leviticus. One of only two Old Testament books ever referenced because the rest of the Old Testament is quite "disturbing" I will just say this - the more I read the bible, the more I discover there is a lot no one ever teaches ... and that concerns me!
But then I really do have one of those "All or nothing" personalities :)
I ran into similar problems the one time I dared to join an organized church (well, insomuch as the hippie church counted). It frustrated me that people* who preach love and acceptance of all people could be so cruel...especially to each other! My solution was to walk away. I hope you find a solution that works for you.
*I'd like to agree with other commenters too, it's usually the people who eff things up, not the religion itself.
I am proud of Cam. There is hope for the younger generation after all. Just because a building has a Church sign on the outside does not mean that you will find the teachings of Jesus on the inside. Your Church sounds like it has the same clowns running it that run Cam's school. It is pretty hard to find a Church where the majority of the folks who run and belong to the Church "hate the sin, love the sinner" as Emmy's dad likes to say. Sometimes you won't find the faith you seek in the Bible or the Church, Dana. The book and the building are just where we hope to find the faith we seek. Too bad your Church seems to be lacking the true message of Jesus's love and sacrifice.
Kudos to Cam! He has the right attitude and his wisdom far exceeds those of the "learned" church leaders.
I have faced similar situations in my church. That is why I no longer go to that church. I now hold a church of one!
....and if God has a problem with that, I am sure he will let me know.
Well I was first gonna go with the majority and say find a new church, but I read your comments about your loyalty to them for what they have done for your family. You seem quite a eloquent communicator so is there someone or a panel of someones you could maybe speak your piece to? Maybe they haven't looked at it from your point of view. Which is to help the child and the "misfits". I really think you should state your case not so much here but there. More people should speak up.
I loath the hypocrisy of some organized religions! I am glad that you and Cam both take a stand but you might want to continue your search for spiritual enlightenment. It sounds like you bring the only enlightenment these people have heard of or seen.
I gotta wonder what kind of church that is. It sounds like some fundamentalist deal. I mean we go to a southern baptist church in the deep deep deep south and they would never ever do that. Of course y'all have more folks in the bathroom at any given time than we have in the whole congregation. The preacher(s) we have had in my 20+ years are overly tolerant. The only time I have ever seen them play a card like that was when they didn't ask a guy to be a deacon because he had been divorced. That is pretty cut and dried though.
My call on the gay thing is they were both right. Which is entirely possible. It can be a sin and God still say to love the sinner. That isn't out of bounds at all. I don't see the problem.
Hmmmm
made myself think. Doesn't it say in there somewhere "he who is without sin..........." seems JC mighta uttered that one.
Hehe, I TAUGHT Bible school class a couple years! Go Me!
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