If you can't stomach Michael Moore (which I can completely understand), here is the excerpt from this clip that I find most disturbing:
“[Y]ou have to ask yourself, Larry, what’s it like to be black in America? And what kind of rage would you feel? And if you did feel that rage, what kind of things would you say that, at times, would be outrageous, crazy even, because you’ve had to live through this for so long. And I do not believe, as a white guy, that I am in any position to judge a black man who has had to live through that.”
So, does this mean that all of black American is so oppressed that rage against whites specifically, and America generally, is completely understandable? Does this mean that no white has the right to "judge" Jeremiah Wright's comments by the same moral standards one might judge the comments of John Hagee?
I see this attitude as extremely detrimental to overcoming racism. We lower standards of admission to universities, we employ less qualified individuals for positions based on their race and we blame the high number of black men in prison for violent crimes on white racism. In essence, we are cultivating black victimhood and
Is racism still a problem in this country? Without a doubt! Is justifying rage against whites the way to fix it? I sure don't see that behavior as the least bit helpful - in fact I would argue that it does nothing more than increase black rage and black racism.
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Michael, from Daddio's Daily Dose has posted PART FIVE in his series Save Thee? Or Sell Thee? If you have been reading this series get over there and finish it - if you haven't, what's wrong with you? It's a great, thought provoking read!
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26 comments:
I don't have a feeling one way or another for Michael Moore...he tends to remind me of Oliver Stone, who also tells stories his way, not always keeping to the truth path.
I do not think that the majority of African Americans feel they are being judged poorly...but as there are pockets of whites who hold extreme hatred to others there is also the same for African Americans. Hispanic Americans and Asian Americans..
I also am not sure i agree with your last comment about the politics...
Interesting post though dana...thought-provoking
Good post and insightful. I have always said that what this world needs is a common enemy to come in and kick all our asses. This common enemy won't give a rats ass if we are White, Black, Hispanic, Asian...nothin. It will indescriminately start to kill us.
When this happens, racism will end and not before. Those who can not get past racism will die. Those that can will work together to live.
I have a feeling the enemy will be biological. The next killer virus.
I would just like us to pretend that this common enemy is kicking our asses now. That way we can all come together now. Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Native American...it doesn't really matter.
I judge people by their intellect and compassion. I try to help those that have less than I do. And I try to learn from those that have more. I wish the rest of the world could do this......
Flyinfox_SATX
It must be very difficult to hang out with the left when you are so far on the right, and while I do agree with the racial problems, and I do not agree with Michael Moore I still wonder how it is to be so 'conservative' given your circumstances as you have relayed them to us. You have taken this 'right' side before and your opinions are usually well crafted. I am not trying to provoke or anger you I am curious only.
Bond,Everyone has their own spin on stories - Michael Moore certainly isn't alone in doing that - and although I really don't like him (hypocrisy comes to mind), I will say that he makes people talk about difficult topics, and that has to be good in some way.
I almost left that last sentence out, but my "conservative" leaning wouldn't allow it. I do think there is a segment of the population (not just African-Americans) that has been convinced they can't take care of themselves - that they need the government to take care of them - and it has been my experience that these people tend to vote Democratic.
Flyinfox, I don't know that racism will ever go away. There will always be folks who don't like other folks because of _______ [FILL IN THE BLANK], but I think we can, as a country, definitely do better.
DB, I appreciate the question, and it's a difficult one for me to answer. In some things (the size of government, illegal immigration, national healthcare, etc.) I most definitely identify with more conservative political views, yet on other things (gay marriage, personal freedoms, birth control, etc.) I identify with more liberal political views. It *is* a difficult place to hang out, but I think that because I respect differing opinions, and am open to listening to them, my "place" isn't so bad.
Quite a bit of what he says does make sense, quite a bit of what he says doesn't... He provokes thought and opinions, which I think is a plus.I can't take a steady diet of him though..
Michael Moore doesn't know when to stop talking. Why is he even on Larry King Live? The overall point is who the f* cares what Reverend Jeremiah Wright has to say? What does that have to do with anything and why are we still talking about it? He isn't the person we are voting for. Why does this clip exist?
"I do think there is a segment of the population (not just African-Americans) that has been convinced they can't take care of themselves - that they need the government to take care of them - and it has been my experience that these people tend to vote Democratic."
I think that this segment of the population is actually the group least likely to vote.
I'm getting the impression you think the crazy things Wright says is actually helping Obama win. Was this chance or tactic?
I meant ARE actually helping Obama win. My grammar may be lacking but not that much.
Knight, I see the Jeremiah Wright discussion as a valid one - not entirely in regards to who becomes our next president - but just as means of opening the lines of communication in an area where whites (said generally) have excluded themselves. I think Wright's attitudes are not uncommon and I think it's something we do need to talk about in this country - not to decide who is "right" and who is "wrong", but rather to understand that different people have different perceptions.
I think Obama will win (or lose) the Democratic nomination based on his views, his platform and his associations - or at least that is the way it should be.
This post wasn't meant to rehash the impact of Jeremiah Wright's comments on Obama's campaign, but rather to point out that I believe the "I am a victim" stance is perpetuated by the government and people (said generally) continuing to judge citizens on flexible moral standards - we should all be held to the same moral standard - isn't that what equality is all about?
But we have a huge government right now involved in every aspect of every persons life...this is hypocrisy - the right has always had a way of distancing themselves from the very things they are doing, remember when the previous president wanted military funding, the 'conservatives' fought against it. I have found my place as a moderate as I have been a registered independent since 1978.
DB, I agree! Our government *is* too big right now, and I definitely don't want it to get any bigger! And all politicians distance themselves from the very things they are doing - it's the nature of the beast!
If I register as an independent in Illinois, I *must* pick a party affiliation to vote in the primaries, which means I cannot vote for a Dem for one position and a Repub for another. Fortunately, I *do* have that opportunity in the general election.
Buff, I just have such a difficult time with his portrayal of a "common" man when his actual lifestyle is anything but common. You know, call it what it is and move on!
I like Michael Moore more than I like Bill O'Reilly. ;)
Honestly, I agree with most of what you're saying. I'm a huge advocate of the person who is the most qualified getting the job, not the person who is probably going to do ok but is a minority so we have to hire them to meet our quota.
However, the fact that minorities are disadvantaged and, dare I say it, victims in this country is true and it needs to stop.
Education in this country is crap, but inner city schools are worse. Children have a right to a quality, safe, meaningful education regardless of where they life. And that's just not happening in this country.
A lack of education means a lack of employable skills, which means a lack of financial resources to survive, which means more governmental dependence and higher affinity for crime. lather rinse repeat. It's very difficult to break out of that cycle and "rise above" it just goes on generation after generation.
Now I'm not a racial minority nor have I lived in the circumstances which I describe above; however, I can imagine that it would be exceptionally difficult to not become so jaded and not blame white america for this problem when the vast majority of people who have this problem aren't white. (wow, I don't think that sentence made any sense but hopefully you get my point)
I'm not a socialist and I don't think that everyone should have everything exactly the same but I do think that there are some true aspects to the "victimness" of minorities in America. (Did I just make up a new word?) The Conservatives ignore it and the Democrats often embellish it. That's why I'm happy to be smack dab in the middle as an Independent. ;)
Tali, here is my hardass response to that - just because you have less, earn less, etc. doesn't mean I've (said generally) victimized you. In fact, one of the great things about this country is that EVERYONE has opportunity. Yes, it may be a bit more of a struggle for some, but that's how things work in our society. Unless we move to a system where you work hard so that you can pay for John Smith, who doesn't work hard, there will always be income and education discrepancies. And if we more to a system of equal distribution of wealth, what is the incentive to work harder - or for that matter at all?
Although I agree that our education system is less than perfect, don't parents have some accountability in this as well? Ask any inner city school teacher how much involvement they get from the parents of these kids. Ask the parents how important their kids education is. Are there exceptions? Yes, but not many.
Clearly it *is* exceptionally difficult to not blame white America, because that is what is happening, and it's my opinion that as long as we take the "Oh, you poor soul - you can't take care of yourself because you've been victimized" road (which breads more dependence), we'll continue on as we have.
"In fact, one of the great things about this country is that EVERYONE has opportunity."
I completely 100% disagree with this. Not everyone has an opportunity. Education limits or opens opportunity. And the fact that our minimum wage isn't even 6 dollars an hour even more limits access to education. Everyone has the opportunity as long as they can afford to foot the bill.
"Ask any inner city school teacher how much involvement they get from the parents of these kids. Ask the parents how important their kids education is."
But these are the same parents who are generations into this cycle that I spoke of earlier. They, themselves, are undereducated and underinformed. It's no shock to me that many inner city parents aren't involved in the education of their children when they haven't been taught that it's important through either educational means or their their experiences growing up with their parents.
Tali, maybe you and I are talking about different opportunity. I know for a fact that there are FAR more inner city programs designed to give kids who are at risk a little boost than there are in my rural community (none) and my rural community has it's fair share of undereducated, minimum wage earning non-minority residents.
Not only that, but college entry standards are lowered for minorities (at some schools) and financial aid (specifically grants and scholarships) are more easily obtained by minorities. How does all of this equate to NO opportunity?
So, since the parents are generations into the cycle, once again we need to give them exemption from accountability? Realistically, these parents are the VERY ones who should know how important education is to success assuming they are not successful due to a lack of education.
I definitely think people like Al Sharpton perpetuate the problem, and I don't think his generation will ever get over racism. I just hope the next one does.
I used to really hate Michael Moore until I really started listening to what he was saying. His last movie was pretty good. The fact that just 1 volunteer from Ground Zero had to go to Cuba to get treated for health issues related to volunteering is enough to make me sick to my stomach.
Plus, did you know that he is an Eagle Scout and was almost a priest? ;)
Another point I wanted to make just from reading the comments on your post: I used to paint houses on the side and I can guarantee you that If I were black or Mexican a lot of the people I painted for would never have hired me. How do I know? Cause a lot of them told me so. Pretty fucked up.
Michael Moore, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malking, Sean Hannity and several others just like them are the reason we can't actually have any civil discourse in this country. Because these people are the ones that the media keeps turning to as "experts" on politics or whatever. They're all the same.
And the thing that really bothers me about all of them the most is that supporters of each side (Dems and Repubs) keep claiming that the OTHER SIDE is worse. They're ALL equally despicable pieces of human debris.
As for J. Wright, he's not really any different from John Hagee or Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell was. They all blamed America for 9/11 and while he blames whites for black's problems, the other guys blame blacks and immigrants (and by immigrants they mean Mexicans) for all of the problems of the poor and working class whites.
I think he's an asshole.
Thank you for the excerpt because I fall into that category of people who can't stomach this douche bag. LOL
Have a kick ass weekend!
I suppose I have never bothered to spend any time thinking about M.M.—that’s “Michael Moore, not “Marilyn Monroe.” [:-)
Corky, yes, those who are out on the fringes of the left or the right certainly encourage "bad" behavior.
I've never been able to get through a Michael Moore movie *wink* I start watching and become irritated when the half-truths start to fly.
Jay, I'm starting to tire RAPIDLY of the media frenzy and backstabbing that I've seen this year. I don't know that I've seen a single thing on the TV (with the exception of the debates) where candidates (any of them) actually detailed their platforms. Instead I get the sensationalized crap from those on the left and right extremes.
I often wonder where all of the "normal" people are during election year.
RD, I knew someone would appreciate the transcript! I'm hoping to make A & B tonight so that I can see what's up at the clinic!
Nick, maybe I should do a marilyn Monroe post next - I think we all think about her more often than we do Michael Moore!
Not a fan of Michael Moore. And Larry King really needs to leave to anonymity. That being said...
What Wright has said, was the rantings of a crazy man in some aspects. However, I have never had to use a seperate bathroom, drink from a different fountain, stay in a segregated motel.
I can certainly understand why some blacks from that era would still harbor anger.
Outstanding post Dana!
Michael Moore is an entertainer who tries to parlay that into a political presence. People that take him and similar blow hards serious deserve the advice they get. Like going to a dentist to learn how to fix a leaky roof.
It is amazing, perplexing and sad the number of people in 2008 that still use 1958 as a reason to be pissed.
We ALL have 24 hours in the day. Some choose to make something of themselves and others choose to spend their day blaming others, focussing on problems and expecting someone else to put our big boy pants on for us.
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I noticed many readers from the "Dana Nation" took a looksee at my "Save Thee? or Sell Thee?" series. Thanks for your interest and thanks Dana for your referral!
I was first exposed to Michael Moore in college. We watched Roger and Me in a White Collar Crime class. I hated him then and I have grown to hate him more and more.
He is an opportunist - just like Al Sharpton. But I am so glad he reminded us all that he is a white man.
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