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I want to thank everyone who stopped by Thursday to see my external flaws (or at least some of them). ASM's idea, along with an abundance of support from both those who participated, and those who visited, made for quite an emotional Thursday in HNT-land. For me, the timing couldn't have been better.
You see, I'm having a bit of a love/hate relationship with HNT right now. I enjoy the creativity - attempting to capture the emotions and the feelings of the moment with nothing more than a $125 digital camera, some free photo editing software and me. Being creative brings me great joy and feelings of pride and accomplishment. I had been neglecting my passion for creativity, and HNT gave me an outlet with the added bonus of some very positive feedback.
18 months later, and a short two week break from HNT, I find that I am really having a difficult time with the perceived and/or manufactured competition that is clearly visible in HNT. There are a handful of bloggers (four that I can name off the top of my head) who post their favorite HNT's for the week. Appearing on one of these lists is a huge honorespecially if it's the right list but it also, in my oh-so-very-humble opinion, fosters a sense of competition and preference between participants. I'm not saying this is true for all who participate, but definitely for some (read that as me). I'd be surprised if I am the only one who has ever felt this way, and even more surprised if anyone else actually admits to it.
I don't want this to come across as me badmouthing anyone who publishes a favorite HNT's post every week. One of these bloggers - whose list is quite well known - is one of my favorite reads each and every day, including the day favorites are posted. Although I've never asked, my guess is that publishing a list of favorite HNT-ers is done entirely out of admiration for those who do HNT well ... "well" in the opinion of the blogger publishing the list. Really no different than having a blog-roll on your side bar. But there is a downside too.
There are some HNT-ers who have never appeared in one of these "favorites" lists, and never will. Not because they aren't "playing" HNT well. Not because they aren't abiding by the HNT guidelines. Not even because their photography isn't wonderful. No, they won't make a favorites list because their style of HNT is not consistent with the type of blog that publishes a favorites lists, or maybe because they are male (there is a significant gender bias in HNT). I find that ... well ... bothersome.
As bloggers, we are all out here for encouragement and validation - among other things - whether we participate in HNT or not. Yet frequently I see 50+ comments on a female HNT that is sensual, erotic and/or just plain in-your-face naked. The well thought out, creative HNT that shows nothing more than what one might see at a grocery store? That HNT-er is lucky to get 3 comments. I don't care what anyone says, HNT-ers, although a supportive community, can be a cliquey, fickle and hypocritical bunch too ... and I've been right there with them.
Sure, I do the retro HNT on the first Thursday of the month - a self imposed reality check of sorts - and I've even had one other HNT-er regularly join me on that venture, but I've also been far too caught up in the "competition" to be a favorite, pushing my "limits of comfort" in hopes of making a list. I think there are many HNT-ers who participate, in part, to help overcome low self-esteem. I certainly can't be the only one, but when it starts being more stressful than fun - more competitive than creative - is it really meeting the intent of HNT? I can only decide that for myself.
I often refer back to this specific HNT guideline (from Osbasso's site):
Am I dissing an HNT submission by not commenting? Am I looking at it and thinking "EGADS! What the hell were they thinking?" but just quickly closing the browser window so as not to be one of those people? Is a favorites list nothing more than "heaping praise" on those who deserve it (I won't even get in to how much that word deserve bothers me) or is it encouraging others to participate in HNT in a certain way? I don't know.
What I do know is that I was in tears (literally) after posting my HNT this week. It sat on my blog for over an hour before the first comment was posted, and that was from Osbasso (in other words, it felt like a charity comment). I found myself so completely wrapped up in concerns surrounding what others thought that I had no pride - no appreciation - for the creative work I'd done. I knew the pic of my "flaws" wouldn't make anyones favorite list - it just didn't meet the criteria - and that bothered me too (but I did check Friday morning, hoping maybe I was wrong).
Is all of this the "fault" of those who publish HNT favorites lists? Of course not. Are people so hung up on their blog numbers that they'll do anything to increase them? Do HNT-ers base their self-worth on the number of comments they get? I can only answer these questions for myself, and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that my answer to that last question is a resounding "YES"
I'm not sure what this means for HNT as part of my blog. I appreciate the concept, but not where it has led me over the past 18 months. I enjoy the opportunity to be creative, but cannot seem to let go of the competitive side. I've made some wonderful friends through HNT and know that most of those friendships will suffer if I leave the community. It really is a difficult situation.
... or maybe I'm just pissy because my fat, flabby belly didn't make a favorites list ...
You see, I'm having a bit of a love/hate relationship with HNT right now. I enjoy the creativity - attempting to capture the emotions and the feelings of the moment with nothing more than a $125 digital camera, some free photo editing software and me. Being creative brings me great joy and feelings of pride and accomplishment. I had been neglecting my passion for creativity, and HNT gave me an outlet with the added bonus of some very positive feedback.
18 months later, and a short two week break from HNT, I find that I am really having a difficult time with the perceived and/or manufactured competition that is clearly visible in HNT. There are a handful of bloggers (four that I can name off the top of my head) who post their favorite HNT's for the week. Appearing on one of these lists is a huge honor
I don't want this to come across as me badmouthing anyone who publishes a favorite HNT's post every week. One of these bloggers - whose list is quite well known - is one of my favorite reads each and every day, including the day favorites are posted. Although I've never asked, my guess is that publishing a list of favorite HNT-ers is done entirely out of admiration for those who do HNT well ... "well" in the opinion of the blogger publishing the list. Really no different than having a blog-roll on your side bar. But there is a downside too.
There are some HNT-ers who have never appeared in one of these "favorites" lists, and never will. Not because they aren't "playing" HNT well. Not because they aren't abiding by the HNT guidelines. Not even because their photography isn't wonderful. No, they won't make a favorites list because their style of HNT is not consistent with the type of blog that publishes a favorites lists, or maybe because they are male (there is a significant gender bias in HNT). I find that ... well ... bothersome.
As bloggers, we are all out here for encouragement and validation - among other things - whether we participate in HNT or not. Yet frequently I see 50+ comments on a female HNT that is sensual, erotic and/or just plain in-your-face naked. The well thought out, creative HNT that shows nothing more than what one might see at a grocery store? That HNT-er is lucky to get 3 comments. I don't care what anyone says, HNT-ers, although a supportive community, can be a cliquey, fickle and hypocritical bunch too ... and I've been right there with them.
Sure, I do the retro HNT on the first Thursday of the month - a self imposed reality check of sorts - and I've even had one other HNT-er regularly join me on that venture, but I've also been far too caught up in the "competition" to be a favorite, pushing my "limits of comfort" in hopes of making a list. I think there are many HNT-ers who participate, in part, to help overcome low self-esteem. I certainly can't be the only one, but when it starts being more stressful than fun - more competitive than creative - is it really meeting the intent of HNT? I can only decide that for myself.
I often refer back to this specific HNT guideline (from Osbasso's site):
It's very important to not be dissing other's submissions! We're all going to have half-hearted entries from time to time. None of us is better than the other. One the other hand, it's completely acceptable to heap praise upon those that deserve it! [emphasis mine]
Am I dissing an HNT submission by not commenting? Am I looking at it and thinking "EGADS! What the hell were they thinking?" but just quickly closing the browser window so as not to be one of those people? Is a favorites list nothing more than "heaping praise" on those who deserve it (I won't even get in to how much that word deserve bothers me) or is it encouraging others to participate in HNT in a certain way? I don't know.
What I do know is that I was in tears (literally) after posting my HNT this week. It sat on my blog for over an hour before the first comment was posted, and that was from Osbasso (in other words, it felt like a charity comment). I found myself so completely wrapped up in concerns surrounding what others thought that I had no pride - no appreciation - for the creative work I'd done. I knew the pic of my "flaws" wouldn't make anyones favorite list - it just didn't meet the criteria - and that bothered me too (but I did check Friday morning, hoping maybe I was wrong).
Is all of this the "fault" of those who publish HNT favorites lists? Of course not. Are people so hung up on their blog numbers that they'll do anything to increase them? Do HNT-ers base their self-worth on the number of comments they get? I can only answer these questions for myself, and I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that my answer to that last question is a resounding "YES"
I'm not sure what this means for HNT as part of my blog. I appreciate the concept, but not where it has led me over the past 18 months. I enjoy the opportunity to be creative, but cannot seem to let go of the competitive side. I've made some wonderful friends through HNT and know that most of those friendships will suffer if I leave the community. It really is a difficult situation.
... or maybe I'm just pissy because my fat, flabby belly didn't make a favorites list ...
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30 comments:
My what a conundrum. Let me put my suggestion in the only I know...by talking abouut myself. Hee Hee.
I think what you have written applies not only to HNT posts but to many blogs in general.
I used to base the success of a post on the number of comments. Up until a couple of months ago, that is.
I no longer write with the regular community of visitors I was used to getting in mind. Sometimes I would get over 50 comments but would look at my site stats and see that it was only those few dozen people who commented that had stopped by.
Mainly I write about topical stuff everyday now and still thropw in a personla post once in awhile WHEN THE MOOD STRIKES ME.
While now, I get far fewer comments than I used to, my daily hits have nearly quadrupled. I regularly have more first time visitors everyday than I do return visitors. It means what I am writing and feeling reaches a far greater audience.
And, the comments I do get now are getting more in depth as are my responses which makes the back and forth in the comments even more fun than before.
I guess my point is...Post an HNT picture when the mood strikes you. It doesn't have to be on a Thursday as part of a group. It should be whenever you feel the need to be creative or in the case of this past Thursday's offering, cathartic.
There you go...a sage commentary from a sage man. Or something like that.
Cheers Dana!!
P.S. I have put in my will that upon my death, you will receive an 8x10 framed glossy of every HNT picture I have ever done. Cheers!!
We have great timing! I'm not sure if you saw it, but on Thursday I closed comments on my HNT and removed my stat counter. It was quite a day of reflection, and I haven't even done HNT in a while.
The reasons you listed make up a large part of why I took a break. It was losing the fun factor because it started to feel like a competition, and HNT shouldn't feel like a job or obligation. I saw myself starting to become one of those people who LIVES for it, and I realized how horribly unhealthy it was to need that kind of validation, to fret every Wednesday over which pic was the best, and to camp out waiting to see if people actually showed up.
I still plan to do pictures from time to time, but on my terms, and without a care over who comes by.
We love HNT. For Veronica and I, picture taking is foreplay and often leads to a hot and sweaty Tuesday night. But that's just us ;-)
I get 2-3x times more comments on my HNTs than on anything else I post, yet I've NEVER made a favorites list. Oh well. Of course, I only know of Vixens (who I read every day) and one other (who I go out of my way to avoid) so maybe I am on someone's favorites list and don't even know it!
I have fun with it, it stimulates my creativity, and hey, it satisfies some of my inner exhibitionist. If it stops being fun, I'll stop.
About the HNTers who don't get many comments. Veronica has written something in the past about "you get out of blogging what you put into it". These HNTers who only get a handful of comments, how active are they on commenting on other blogs? My friends Sexy Runners only get a few comments, but I also rarely see them commenting elsewhere. In other words, they're not doing much to generate traffic (and comments) on their own blog. So is the lack of comments on their blog that surprising?
And Dana, don't sell yourself short, many of us will continue to visit your blog, even if you stop doing HNT :-)
I meant to say my HNT *blog*.
I think ASM's idea was kickass, as are all of the people who put aside their ego and participated.
Great post Dana. I do the HNT for fun, and also because I find the praise validating. And yes, it is fun foreplay.
I find that I enjoy a creative HNT which is why you are usually one of my 1st stops on Thursday and why I am such a theme whore for my HNT's.
I think that you should HNT when the mood strikes you and not feel that you HAVE to HNT!
I've seen similar arguments in the past regarding HNT and I'm sorry that anyone feels that way. Though I will admit right now that while I feel sorry, I don't really understand because (like my weight!) blog comments and visitors are just a number. I'm not big on external validation, especially via numbers, because it seems like you set yourself up to always be disappointed in some way. Like, oh yay I got 50 comments but that person got 51. Or, look at all the people who visited my blog but why did only half of them comment?
Maybe I'm a weirdo like that, taking such a "fuck it" attitude to blogging and comments I do or do not receive. I sometimes feel bad for not taking the feelings of others into consideration because I do read a lot of blogs but rarely comment because it's just so damn time consuming to click over from Reader. :)
Physical beauty will always fade, some never had it- and maybe they are the lucky ones. They found other ways of gratification beyond someone praising how good they looked, and probably after some hardships, learned to love themselves as they were.. Really attractive people tend to not develop into well-rounded adults- they don't have to...do they?
I don't participate in HNT, although I do seem to read a few bloggers who do participate. I never realized there was such a competition in the HNT thing.
I, for one, love your submissions. They are always creative and sensual without being "in your face". Of course, I would still be an avid reader of your blog if you didn't do HNT - so, do it if the mood strikes you and not if it doesn't. I'm still a big fan!
There was a point in my blogging that I wrote and posted for the audience instead of just letting it flow naturally. Fortunately I realized quicktly how that was just a self centered approach and I moved away from that school of thought.
After taking a two month break from the blog, I put a short post up just to say, "I'm still alive." I was amazed at how many people came by an welcomed me back. Point is, those that come by are friends not just numbers.
I think Matt-Man said it well. Post what you like and when it feels right.
Your stats/comments will come and go, but those that care about you will continue to visit.
Whether or not you call it HNT, I hope you continue to share.
I used to go around and check out HNT posts but don't anymore. Just you, Lust not Found and of course M. But, that's mostly because you guys are all part of my regular reads. And because you guys seem to be more in the spirit of "half-naked"
I actually don't know how I feel about HNT. I enjoy the creativity of some people, but find others to be much closer to just in your face porn. And not good porn either.
I actually did a post once about HNT, but decided to delete it before it went live. No reason to say mean things about people I don't even know.
As for comments and page views? About a year ago I was getting 70 - 80 comments and about 60% more page views than I am now. But, oh well.
I notice that I normally have a lot less comments when I don't post HNT. Sometimes when I post HNT pictures I don't even get that many comments. Having said that, I guess I don't understand how some HNTs can get 50 comments for their picture and another HNT can get only 3 comments.
You were head on when you said that the HNT community can be cliquey. I love my fellow HNTers but it's true. Sometimes I think, "How can that person get so much admiration for their photo and this other person hardly got any for theirs?'
*hugs* Dana.
Something Hubman touched on.... I agree with a point he brought up about the *amount* of comments some get compared to others. I whole heartedly agree with the statement that you get what you put into it. For *ME*, when I go through the motions of saying "I'm up" for HNT (or ANY weekly meme for that matter), I'm letting others know that I am participating. It bothers me *a lot*, people who come to say they are up, expect people to come check out their HNT's but then never make the rounds to anyone elses. (and I'm not saying visiting EVERYONE's site, but make an effort to visit as many as you can, IMO)
But this is another topic and post and I'll stop myself from that tangent. I make a definitive effort to visit *every* HNT. I do it bc I like to and bc I don't feel it would be fair to post a 'favorites' list (which I was the first to do and have been featuring for over 2 yrs) w/o seeing them all.
My passion is photography. And esp erotic photography. My favorite list is based off of what I consider to be 'well done photography'. I have featured everything from completely clothed, to only a foot or an eye or a lip showing, to completely nude....it has depended on the photo itself.
I admit to be biased to female HNTers (in my favorites, I still visit and comment on all male hnters). I love the female form, not the biggest fan of the male form. I am very particular about what I consider well done photography and I guess for that reason I've thought it would get redundant to always put up 13messages HNTs ;)
I think you touched on something very important. HNT should be done for you. If you are no longer enjoying it, it's causing stress or ill feelings then I wouldn't do it anymore. Blogging....HNT....shouldn't feel like a job. It should be done as an outlet, something you do bc you enjoy it.
You of all people should realize that your readers don't stop in here to only see your nakedness. You have incredibly talented, creative hnts. And that is only on Thurs....the other days your 'fans' come here to read your intellect and what opinion you have to write about whatever topic that. You are a well rounded, well loved blogger. :)
Gah.... I was so long winded I didnt' make sense in my last paragraph. It should read:
"....the other days your fans come here to read your intellect, opinions and what you have to say about whatever topic you have chosen."
(Doh, sorry)
Your opinions are very well presented. Very perceptive.
I don't look at your HNTs. I looked once, but I don't get it. I have tried to be a good reader and I leave comments,but HNT? Meh.
I understand the feeling of competition here in the blogosphere, even among the relatively small (in the grand scheme of things) community of "adult" bloggers.
I feel a sense of disappointment when my HNTs don't garner comments -- or enough comments. I feel discouraged when a new blog gains 30 followers in less than two weeks, while my blog languishes at 20...after several months.
I wonder what to do to get people to like me, really like me...and then I feel pitiful for being so pitiful. I mean, I should write for myself, right? I should post my pictures and publish my blog because it's me and who I am and what I want to put out there, regardless of who likes it, me or anything else.
I struggle with the same questions you do. If I look at someone's HNT, I try to comment, just to reaffirm their participation and let them know someone is out there, but am I as likely to worry about not posting a comment if there are already 30 comments? Not really...not nearly as much as I'll be conscientious of posting a comment to someone who only has 6...because I've been that person before, and no matter how pitiful it is, it really sucks.
Thanks for this post.
I agree with so much of what you say here. I remember when I first started posting HNT's. It was shortly after I'd started my blog, and while I did it the first time because it seemed fun, I'll be honest, I also did b/c it seemed a good way to drive traffic to my blog. I was brand new, and yes, I wanted people to start reading me, maybe even following me. I write what I write b/c it's a creative outlet and b/c I enjoy it, but also b/c I want people to read it. I DO feel validated by knowing people are reading me. Maybe that's shallow, I don't know, but it is what it is.
But my HNT's almost always reflect my blog and thus my life, since I write about a very particular (tho large) aspect of my life. I don't take photos for HNT, the photos I use for it are mostly from real life scenes that my Top has photographed. I use a snippet or piece that seems interesting or unusual, or perhaps highlights an aspect of the scene that moved me in some way...and I usually don't get a lot of comments on those. The ones I get comments on tend to be the conventional ass shot, or traditionally "sexy" pic. And I'm ok with that, b/c I know most people either don't get, are maybe shocked by, or just don't enjoy, what it is I do. But that's what I enjoy posting, so I'll keep doing it, whether or not I get many comments. And for the record, yes, it is only the more "traditional" pics of mine that have gotten on any lists. Like you, I recognize that the listmakers prefer a certain "type" of pic...and I'm just not willing to change what I post, what I enjoy posting, to make someone's list, even tho it does feel like an "honor" to make one.
That said, I do feel hurt sometimes when I see someone post (for instance) an obviously professional photo or just another ass shot (even my own!) and get 25 comments on it when I've gotten maybe 4 on an HNT that I thought was really interesting or unique. That seems to defeat the essence of HNT, which to me is about posting some little snippet of yourself, maybe a new or unique way of seeing yourself, or maybe highlighting your creativity and artistry. Then again, that is just what I get out of it--it's obviously different for everyone and fulfills different needs for everyone. And maybe, in the end, that is the true essence of HNT after all.
Excellent, thought-provoking post!
Matt-Man, only an 8 x 10?? And I prefer Matte (or is that MATT?) over glossy!
Biscuit, I didn't see that, but yes, I know those feelings all too well. That incessant need for validation - the feelings of worthlessness should the validation not be enough (and it could NEVER be enough) - and the "competition" for recognition from those "important" in the HNT community. I really did get caught up in it all.
Hubman, although I do feel there are some commonalities in all who participate in HNT, there are also some very individually specific reasons people participate as well. Do I think some who get just a handful of comments don't reciprocate with comments? Yes ... but I also believe there are a great number of people out there who sit on the fringe of what many consider acceptable and this tight-knit HNT community isolates them even further.
Another Suburban Mom, I would guess that the way you and hubman participate in HNT makes it very different for you than for me. I must be secretive and dishonest. I can only seek approval and validation of my creativity from other bloggers. I think that's been part of my demise in all of this ...
NY Diva, I wish my approach to HNT was much more like yours. I believe yours is a healthy approach - the one I had hoped to have as well - but one that I realize might be elusive to me.
buffalodick, as much as I realize the limits of physical beauty, I also know that I've been praised for being smart, interesting, etc - but never because I was beautiful. Getting some of that through praise (even if it was artificial) through HNT was addictive.
Evil Twin's Wife, no ... you don't participate in HNT, but you do participate in random cleavage *wink*
Jeff B, It was good to see you back too! Yes, there are a handful of folks I leave on my reader after months of inactivity, and you were one of those. I agree, the friends are far more important than the numbers!
13messages, I think I'll always enjoy trying to capture emotion in a self portrait. I don't see that changing any time soon!
Jay, I think HNT is like every other meme - a bit cyclic. Once you get whatever it is you need from it (different for each person) one becomes a bit disenfranchised. Maybe that is all this is ... me moving forward. Scary thought!
rage, I think any type of writing is cliquey to a certain extent, but I think I've seen a different type of cliquey in HNT recently - one that seems to exclude some based on a criteria I can't quite figure out. I don't know ... it just seems to have changed for me.
Vixen, you - of all HNT-ers - are by far the most vigorous in visiting the full spectrum of participants. In fact, I modeled my HNT commenting after you because I was so impressed with your selflessness.
One more thought on the "They get what they put out" camp. Does that mean that we are commenting on HNT's not because of what they are or how well they are done, but because they commented on ours? Does that seem just a bit shallow? It means that HNT is really nothing in the grand scheme of things - it isn't what is important - it's who comments that matters. ICK!
Dana, I mentioned "They get out what they put out" about blogging in general, though I did offer HNT as a specific example.
And I don't think it's shallow of me at all to comment back to someone who commented on my HNT. They complimented, in some way, what I had to offer, it's just common courtesy to repay the compliment. Just a way of saying "thank you"
Surely Ms Manners Dana would understand that ;-)
Richard, they are certainly what I see, although my perspective is only mine.
Caron, you don't look at my HNT's?? Now I'm really hurt *wink*
Dharma, and then I feel pitiful for being so pitiful I can't even begin to tell you how often I've steped in that world - far too many times than I should have.
Jade, my greatest frustration is in knowing what is required to get a good HNT - for me - and knowing that there are a bunch of people out there who have the luxury of having someone else take there shots, or having access to professional photography equipment. It seems it's never a level playing field - which is why I am bothered by favorites lists. It's kind of like ... "And the winner is ..." yet seldome do we know what it actually took for that HNT to be posted. In my world, that is what is important!
hubman, honestly? I'd much rather not have a comment than have to wonder if the only reason someone left a "nice" comment on my blog was out of obligation. I've felt that way on more than one occasion, and it wasn't pleasant.
It was easy for me. My blog was never wildly "popular". I liked the HNT as a competitive sport. It is just art. You post what you want. You hope others will appreciate it for what it is. To me, art is just to subjective to be a competition.
p.s. It is your blog and your time. Post what you want for your reasons and don't let external forces make you stay or go.
I really liked what you had to say. I no longer worry about the number of comments...as long as it's at least one. I like knowing that someone has commented. As for lack of male HNTs being featured, I knew Vixen digs chicks and I would always hope that someone would do a list of male HNTs...why not you? ;)
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